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  #1  
Unread 25th of July, 2012, 05:04
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Characters

Ok lets talk/brainstorm about characters and stuff here.
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Unread 25th of July, 2012, 05:29
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Hero really doesn't have classes but in order to make sure there isn't any overlap of skill sets here's a rough idea of what we have so far:

Paco - Adam: warforged warrior (heavy armor, big sword)
Reinstadler - Allenaster Race-half elf Skills - classified
Gral - Kalashtar psionic ninja
Tashalar - ?
Zachol - something paladiny?

With an eye towards adventuring we could use something with some magic/range and healing - although there are work arounds for that.

Last edited by -J-; 25th of July, 2012 at 06:50.
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Unread 25th of July, 2012, 11:13
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Some kind of paladin, yeah. Also heavy armor and big sword, but focused more on protection. Also she'll be able to handle healing. Something like a battle cleric, cleansing and purifying, taking hits, that sort of thing.
Possibly scale back on the armor. Is there a way to have it so that she's constantly being healed, so her "tanking" comes more from that than not getting hurt in the first place? I don't know what levels or the "endgame" is like in Hero, but the idea would be later on that she becomes this shining font of healing and general awesomeness.
I really need to look at Hero. I'll try to do that tonight.

Anyway, I'm still poking at the character concept, but the idea is a sort of idealistic and kind knight protector figure. Goes out and helps people, although since her skill set is focused more on killing things that's what she usually ends up doing. Tends to get pretty angry when she sees cruelty or injustice, although she doesn't really care about "sin" or "vices," or anything where there doesn't seem to be a victim. Obviously has some kind of divine gift, but really doesn't talk or apparently care about the gods, and gets confused when someone brings this up.
That kind of deal, maybe?
She's basically a knight errant, so it would be pretty easy to come up with a reason for why she's involved in whatever the party's going to be doing.
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Unread 25th of July, 2012, 11:49
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I like the idea of an idealistic champion, and I think it will work fine for the game. Semantically we'd have to explore your relationship to the divine/spiritual force more. Also understand that such a stance is considered unorthodox by the more rank and file priests.
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Unread 25th of July, 2012, 12:10
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She really doesn't care about the church's stance.
I'm thinking she grew up in a monastery, got frustrated with the church's odd fixation on some topics that are, to her, pretty trivial, and decided to go out into the world and actually do some good.
The fact that she's retained her divine gifts are all the proof she needs that she's doing alright. Nevermind the fact that, in Eberron, you don't need to be a believer to use divine power, so retaining her gifts is actually completely meaningless in terms of whether the gods approve. She doesn't know this, though.
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Unread 25th of July, 2012, 12:55
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That sounds super. As you go through and flesh out her background more I'd like more details (which monastery, was there a particular incident that sort of galvanized her heretical beliefs, names are always a plus - friends, enemies, things like that).

How would you like to proceed? I could whip up something based on what you gave me or we can work on fleshing out more of what you want.
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Unread 25th of July, 2012, 16:32
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Put up a first draft of how i'm seeing arcane magic up in the Foundry thread. Mostly for me, as no one has made an arcane spell caster yet. Questions, comments, and or concerns are always welcome.
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Unread 25th of July, 2012, 16:53
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I'm kind of concerned about Marvel's announced Ant Man film.
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Unread 25th of July, 2012, 17:20
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I'm going to poke at this "Hero" thing for a while. I'd also like to hear about the other characters more.

Also the paladin is from Breland. It would be sort of neat if we weren't actually there (maybe Karrnath or Aundair?), but that's where she's from.
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Unread 26th of July, 2012, 01:20
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Dropping by to say hi.

I honestly don't have any character concept in mind at all yet.

I'll consider what everyone else has while I think about this...

... not quite sure when I'll get around to it though. Away for the coming weekend and a bit on the busy side as well.
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Unread 26th of July, 2012, 02:45
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I know Antman? Really? of all the cool characters they have they go with...antman...

Sounds good Zach - let me know what you need from me.
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Unread 26th of July, 2012, 06:44
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Dropped and updated the How to be a hero thread into the Foundry
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Unread 26th of July, 2012, 06:54
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All table-ized - very nice .
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Unread 26th of July, 2012, 08:46
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i endeavor to try
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Unread 26th of July, 2012, 13:58
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And I think an adventure set in Karnnath is a fabulous idea =)
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Unread 26th of July, 2012, 16:18
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Yeah, lots to read - thanks for all the input/work, J. I'll 'download' it and read it on the train tomorrow and/or on Sunday.
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Unread 27th of July, 2012, 12:09
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Adam is a warforged and veteran of the Last War—heavy infantry, specifically. Heavy armor. Big sword.

When you’re literally made for war, it’s hard to find your place in the world during peace time. Adam’s dealing with that right now—wrestling with all the big questions. Who am I? What is my place in the world? Do I have a soul? That sort of thing.

He may or may not even be adventuring when the story starts. He would certainly fall back easily into a life of adventure, but depending on how the story starts, he may be attempting to live some sort of mundane life. He's such a blank slate that I'm having trouble explaining what he's like. At the moment, he doesn't really even know what he's like yet. I hope that makes sense.

If it helps, I think I can sum up Adam with a little free verse I whipped up when I was originally brainstorming the concept for the character:

I am Adam.
I am forged for war.
I have never known hunger; I cannot eat.
I have never known despair; I cannot fear.
I have never known hope; I cannot dream.
I have never known peace; I cannot find it
In a world where no one
Is forged for war.

Last edited by Paco; 27th of July, 2012 at 12:21.
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Unread 27th of July, 2012, 12:59
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Nice!
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Unread 27th of July, 2012, 18:02
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Ok Paco here's a rough up of Adam - see what you think.


Adam
Val Char Cost roll notes
28 STR 20 15- Lift 1212.6kg 5d6
10 DEX 0 11- OCV 5 DCV 3
23 CON 10 14-
20 BODY 5
10 INT 0 11- PER Roll 11-
9 EGO -1 11- ECV 3 DECV 3
10 PRE 0 11- PRE Attack: 2d6
20 PD 6 20PD (8rPD)
13 ED 3 13ED (8rED)
2 SPD 0 Phases: 6,12
10 REC 6
0 END -4
43 STUN 10 Total: 63


Movement
Running 12m/24m
Leaping 4m/8m


Powers
Cost Powers
Forged for War
3 +3 STR
3 +3 CON
4 +4 PD
5 +5 BODY
2 +3 Stun
15 Construct Form: Does Not Bleed
14 Construct Form: Indefatigable 0 END with STR
24 Construct Form: Adamantine plating 8rPD/8rED Hardened
32 Construct Form: Life Support
Doesn’t Eat,Sleep, or Breathe
Immunity to Poison and Disease
Immortal
Safe in High Pressure/ Vacuum
Safe in Intense Cold, Heat, and High Radiation
5 Construct Form Heart of Iron +10 PRE (Only to resist PRE attacks)


Talents
4 Construct Might : Power Through - Area of effect (4 touching, continuous hexes)for up to 4d6 KA


Skills
3 Analyze:Combat 11-
3 Climbing 11-
1 Concealment 8-
1 Demolitions 8-
2 Area Knowledge: Five Nations 11-
2 Knowledge Skill: Militaria 11-
3 Mechanic 11-
1 Navigation: Land 8-
- Paramedic 8-
2 Professional Skill: Soldier/Mercenary 11-
3 Stealth 11-
3 Tactics 11-
3 Teamwork 11-
6 Weapon Familiarity: Common Melee, Common Missile, Common Martial Art
3 Weaponsmith 11-
5 Combat Skill Level: +1 with Two Handed Melee weapons[/rows]
[row]
Total Powers & Skills: 152


Disadvantages
15 Distinctive Features – Warforged (not concealable)
5 Enraged – Brutality against civilians go 8-/recover 14-
10 Physical Complication – Heavy (200kg)
10 Psychological Complication: Mind made for war
10 Social Complication: Warforged
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Unread 28th of July, 2012, 00:48
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I want to hash out the two big powers first.

I was thinking something like
Regeneration
Regeneration, 2 BODY per Turn 32 pts
Can Heal Limbs 5 pts
Resurrection (prevented by desecration) 20 pts (57 pts active cost)
Does Not Work On Unholy Damage -1/4 (46 pts real cost)
and
Divine Magic
Variable Point Pool, 32 pt Pool, 40 pt Control 52 pts
No Skill Roll Required +1 (104 pts active cost)
Limited (only healing and positive effects) -1/2 (83 pts real cost)

My understanding is that this would let me use a variety of configurations for Healing, such as:
Healing Aura
1d6 of Healing 10 pts
4m Area of Effect +1/4
Selective AoE +1/4
Constant +1/2
Reduced Endurance (0 END) +1/2
Decreased Re-use Duration (1 turn) +1.5 (40 pts active cost)
Does Not Work On Unholy Damage -1/4 (32 pts real cost)
But also something that could heal other types of damage, from disease or poison or whatever.
I think what this means is that she heals 1d6 on each of her phases, as well as any segment that an ally enters the area, up to a maximum of 6 per turn.

Purification
1d6 of Healing
Reduced Endurance (0 END) +1/2
Decreased Re-use Duration (1 turn) +1.5 (30 pts real cost)
To get rid of unholy damage (single target, requires a deliberate switch and an active attack action).

Also, something like this:
Bless
2d6 of STR Aid 12 pts
4m Area of Effect +1/4
Delayed Return Rate (5 per 5 min) +1 (27 pts real cost)
But it could be whatever other stat needed.

I can change this by using one of my segments, without a skill roll. However, the whole thing together is taking up a whopping 129 pts. Yeesh. So she won't be that much better than a "skilled normal," besides the obvious "really hard to kill" part.

I'm thinking she's actually died before, though she's not fully aware of what happened. She thinks she was just knocked unconscious, then got up.
The idea is that, in general, actually fighting her is an extremely poor choice. Unless you have an unholy weapon, she's going to heal herself for 5-8 BODY per turn (and her buddies for 3-6, if they're close) (assuming SPD 3). I'm not really used to Hero, but that seems like a lot, considering BODY is usually something like 10 to 16. However, it won't get significantly better, so maybe that's okay...?
Simply buying armor seems like it would be a better strategy, but I'm kind of attached to the image of "constantly healing everybody at a ridiculous rate" now. Plus she can double the AoE radius for fairly cheap (5ish pts?), which seems like it could get pretty fun later on. Having the aura affect an area 1km in radius would cost a total of 35 pts, once it goes through the VPP adjustments. So that's pretty cool. I actually do want her to be able to do something like that, eventually, though it would make sense to cost more (or maybe not? I still don't have a good feel for how significant a character point is in this game).
Then again, in single combat, a troll is still going to squish her. Even if she gets back up, she can't really beat it.

Oh gosh that's a lot of numbers. I thought GURPS was bad.
I dunno, something out along those lines?

e: Also I don't mean to be powergaming or exploiting or whatever. Still poking at this system.
Are we even going to get into combats? What's the game going to be about? Combat in Hero looks... involved.
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Last edited by zachol; 28th of July, 2012 at 00:55.
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Unread 28th of July, 2012, 01:09
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It isn't as bad as it looks, and J really does a great job of making it easy for the players. I've been in four or five of his Hero games and I still cannot make a character or figure out all my options in combat, and neither of those things has ever felt like a problem.
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Unread 28th of July, 2012, 01:48
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Hey, posted a little backstory for Allenaster to give some feel. He's a veteran of the War and probably falls into a DND category of social rogue or maybe magic-less bard.
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Unread 28th of July, 2012, 04:59
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Hey Zach,

To answer your last questions first, yes there will be combat =) The first act will revolve around the plot arcs that you, the players, present. As we move forward things will move towards a GM generated plot arc, but as with all things it isn't mandatory to follow it. I try to inject a good deal of agency into things - meaning that you should act like you think your character should act, and not do things "because the GM says so". Of course that doesn't mean that there aren't consequences for your actions - you don't have to do that favor for the scion of house Cannith, but you can be assured that they will remember that when you next go to them for help.

I actually find Hero combat fairly straight forward, more so than DnD. My goal is not to "getcha" because you're not familiar with the rules. If you find your self confused as to what you can and can't do, or a permutation of how to apply say a combat maneuver, then let me know. I can help get you to the heroic action that you want. The involved-ness of Hero lies mostly on my side, not yours.

now for the powers.

First lets talk about active point limits. In general I like to work with a 40-60 point range on offensive powers, and a 20-30pt range with defensive powers. These guidelines are just that, guidelines. Typically I look at the character's role - if they're "DPS" then they can push the upper limit on damage, if they're a "tank" then I expect them to be pushing the limits on defense. Being high in both is, in general, not fun.

Magic users and Hero

Hero is designed to be a universal system, allowing the players to emulate any effect that they can think of. Just in the games that I've run here we've run down and dirty low power fantasy all the way to tank lifting supers with out having to load up various expansions or the like.

This flexibility can be tricky at times as individual genres require different active point caps in order to maintain the feeling of that genre. Magic in particular poses the biggest challenge as magical systems are more or less defined by their restrictions (mages can't wear armor, cleric can, both must memorize their spells but sorcerers don’t, etc).

Since in DnD the way a cleric uses magic is similar to how a wizards uses magic (they have to memorize set spells) we’ll use a similar set up to them similarly (which is exactly what I was going to type up today).

Like a mage, a cleric has many spells available, but can access only a few (the ones they have prepared). Additionally a cleric can wear armor and not have it effect his spell casting, which to me denotes a fundamentally different relationship to magic than a mage (more so than just being able to add the holy tag to a spell). To go back and touch on the metaphysics of magic this is how channeling/clerical magic works in the mind of -J- (again heavily influence by Rolemaster).

Gods are great reservoirs of magic, they are essentially magical creatures that seem to gain power from/feed off of their devotees. To me this sort of denotes a reciprocal relationship – namegivers absorb small amounts of ambient magical energy as part of living in a world saturated by it. They in turn subconsciously transmit this power to their god in the form of prayer, sacrifice, or other religious observance. The gods absorb this magical energy aspecting it according to their nature. A war god’s essential nature is that of war and conflict. The gods then infuse this power into their more devoted followers (clerics, paladins, etc), placing in an otherwise normal person the matrix of a spell, as well as magical energy necessary to fuel that spell. This relationship with magic is fundamentally different than that of a wizard or sorcerer – they shape the spell matrix themselves, and then draw magic and force it into that matrix.

This relationship to magic is what fundamentally differentiates a cleric from a wizard or sorcerer. The cleric doesn’t have to know the minutia of academic magic theory (wizard) or have a magical lineage (sorcerer) to cast spells - their god gives everything they need to them, locking both matrix and power within the devotees body/spirit until they (the devotee) calls on it.

With this sort of metaphysical underpinning, how would divine spell casting look on Hero?

Like a mage the cleric has this almost unfettered access to spells. Really anything that the cleric can think of to ask for, the god can accommodate. The only real limitation is the aspected nature of a god’s essence. A fire god might not be the best at healing (say max of 20 active points for healing spells) but their Fiery wrath spells would be top notch (say 40-80 active points). To emulate this we’ll build a power pool similar to that of a mage – 5 points for a 25/50 variable power pool limited to one of the 8 schools of magic. Unlike a mage the cleric would not need to take the “Arcane Caster” limitation, and as the spell comes from an outside source the entire pool should take the charges limitation on the control cost. This would have the effect of saying you could prepare any number of spells, but once you cast that prepared spell, you can’t cast it again until you prayed for spells the next day. This charges limitation to the control cost would be offset by having the Doesn’t require a skill roll advantage on the pool. Just as in DnD a cleric could ask for multiple versions of the same spell.

Although the above does a fair job of emulating the “standard” cleric who worships a god, it doesn’t really fit for the character who is in effect tapping into residual spiritual energy (like you). Semantically this lack of recognizable divine agent (note - just because you feel the presence of god, that doesn’t mean there isn’t one) is more akin to the Favored Soul (the sorcerer version of a cleric). In hero it really doesn’t matter what you call it, or where the power comes from, it’s a matter of effect (the rest is semantics).

So to emulate the godless devotee, it would make more sense to build their powers akin to those of a sorcerer. Each power would be built with the following limitations: Spell (-), Requires a Faith Roll (-) , some form of Costs Endurance (either to activate - or every phase -) , and Noisy (-). Additional limitations such as Incantations, Gestures, Increased Endurance Cost(-) and OAF/OIF Focus(either something like a holy symbol or consumable reagents) are all appropriate. Once the power is built, divide its real cost by 5 – this is the cost that you pay.

(the Spell limitation is a compound limitation that makes it so a caster cannot use certain combat maneuvers (Bouncing and Attack & Spreading) or make Mulitple-Power Attacks with them)

Example: Divine Wrath – 8d6 Energy blast (40 acitve points) Area of Effect Radius 8m () Requires a Faith Roll (-)Spell (-) Noisy (-) Incantations (-)Complex Gestures - two hands (-) OIF Holy Symbol (-) Total active points: 60 (40 x (1+)) Real cost: 17 (60 (1+ + + + + + ) ) Cost to character: 3 (17/5)

The above spell would impose a -6 penalty to your Faith skill roll, and cost 6 points of mana/spirit. The good news is that you could cast it as many times as you wanted, until you were out of mana/spirit.

To fuel your spells you’ll need a mana pool (spirit pool or whatever). The pool should be closer to that of a wizard than a sorcerer (ie a large pool, with a slower recharge). The slow recharge works all the time (unlike DnD) as long as the character is not overly stressed (the Slow recovery and Requires Rest limitations). I would not be opposed to tweaking the recovery so that it was faster (say Rec per 5 minutes, or 20 min) as long as the limitation of Requires Intense prayer/mediation (-1) was added – this would simulate the praying for spells style. You would pray for an hour or two and be all set. This is also how I’m thinking of emulating psionics and the recovery of Psi points.

Individual powers

First off it’s pretty awesome that you jumped right into the mechanics. The power creation stuff can be confusing until you get the hang of it (the hero designer program is a god send – well worth the $25 I paid for it). Many of my edits are along the lines of “things you didn’t know because they pertain to this particular genre”.

Regeneration – regeneration is a self only power and as such requires some finagling to make it fit within spell based system. A spell of Regeneration would take the above limitation (cost endurance should be bought at the Only to activate level), plus the advantage of Time Limit to turn it into a duration style spell. Resurrection is a “stop sign” add on meaning that it is potentially game altering and requires GM approval. For a “regeneration” spell I will say that the Resurrection add on is not appropriate (there are other ways of simulating Raise Dead, which I’ll explain below)

Variable power pool – Appropriate for a wizards and clerics appealing to a sentient entity for spells, not so much with the tapping into the general spiritual mojo variety.

Healing aura – always a favorite. Adjustment powers (accept for drains) have a maximum amount that they can change a characters stats by, which you rightly maneuvered around by buying down the re-use duration. In general I don’t like messing with the Re-use duration, especially when tied into a zero endurance AOE healing field. In past games I used the healing per wound optional rule, which allows you to reach your healing max for each wound, as opposed to a general damage slush fund. This is something I would have to reflect on more before deciding.

Constant – Normally constant powers can be maintained against a target and then additional attacks can be made. Constant combined with 0 End is a potentially dangerous mix – I would prefer building it with a duration through the Time Limit advantage, or lower its Endurance cost to say instead of zero.

To make a field that emanates from you and moves with you (which is what it seems like you want to do), you should buy the Mobile advantage

Purification – as above. Not sure I like the decreased Re-use duration, and the power should cost endurance.

Bless – Spot on. Would need the common limitations above. The Bull strength type of spells can also be emulated using Boost (Cost Endurance to activate) and Time limit. This give a stat boost that lasts for a more or less fixed amount of time and doesn’t lose its potency for the duration. This is how I like to emulate things like the Barbarian Rage ability:

Rage: Boost Strength, Constitution, Body, Stun 2d6, Expanded Effect (x4 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (+1 ) (30 Active Points); Only to Aid Self (-1), One Use At A Time (-1), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (3d6 drain to LTE; -1), Costs Endurance (to maintain; -1/2), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used : Lowered executive functioning -0

You stay super strong until you cancel the power or run out of endurance (in this case a endurance reserve called Fury)

Let me know if there's anything that doesn't make sense, or that you'd like me to extrapolate on.
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  #24  
Unread 28th of July, 2012, 05:07
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Forgot to talk about Raise Dead. The best way to emulate powers like Raise Dead, or cure disease and remove poison is through the use of major transform.

Basically you build yourself a major transform - Transform dead body into live body, Diseased body into non-diseased body, or poisoned body into non-poisoned body.

Raise Dead is a power that would require my permission to take. In general I limit to clerics who have specific domains over healing or the dead. Meaning that if you're not in tight with the priests of Olladra, its off to find a cleric of the Keeper or Vol - and all the goodness that entails. Its a semantic limitation but it keeps Raising as a rare and unique event and more inline with the noir feel of Eberron.
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Unread 28th of July, 2012, 06:25
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zachol
Flesh Colossus [Epic GM]

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How does costing END work? Something about 1 pt per 10 pts of Active Cost? That seems like it would get spent really fast.

Also, in general, I was thinking she wouldn't really do "spells." It's more that she shoves positive energy at people without really knowing what she's doing, and it ends up healing them.
I focused on the variable power people because it seems like "healing" can represented in different ways--is there a way to take a healing power that just "fixes whatever's wrong?" Like you said, stuff like "cure disease" and "remove poison" work differently, so you need the VPP to switch it around.
I'm particularly attached to regeneration as a non-spell thing. She regenerates because she's a wellspring of positive energy, not on account of a particular regeneration spell she has to activate.

Maybe a small power pool with a very fast recharge--it's always flowing into her, to the point that she just bleeds it out, which is why she's always being healed, but she uses it incredibly inefficiently, and can't do anything but "heal stuff" (and I suppose harm undead).

Also I guess I'm not sure what a combat in Hero is like, for like how much damage a character might take and would need to be healed for. The idea is "she's an unusually strong healer." But maybe the 1d6 per turn no END constant AoE thing is silly overkill.

e: To be clear, I really dislike spells in general and am sort of jumping on a chance to not have to deal with them.
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Last edited by zachol; 28th of July, 2012 at 06:31.
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