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  #1  
Unread 2nd of May, 2011, 15:18
beowulf
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OoC: Pregaming

Everyone have their Mad Dogs and their Four Lokos? Okay, good.

Do you play to win?
a) Yes, you totally play to win! The win conditions are…
b) Good play isn’t a win/lose kind of thing

Player characters are:
a) expected to work together; conflicts between them are mostly for show
b) expected to work together; but major conflicts might erupt but you’ll patch them up given some time
c) expected to work together; major conflicts might erupt and never see reconciliation
d) pursuing their own agendas – they might work together, they might work against each other
e) expected to work against each other, alliances are temporary at best

The GM’s role is:
a) The GM preps a set of events – linear or branching; players run their characters through these events. The GM gives hints to provide direction.
b) The GM preps a map with NPCs and/or monsters. The players have their characters travel anywhere they can reach on the map, according to their own goals.
c) The GM has no plan – the GM simply plays the NPCs and has them act or react based on their motivations
d) There’s no GM. Everyone works together to make the story through freeform.
e) There’s no GM. The rules and the system coordinate it all.

The players’ roles are…
a) …to follow the GM’s lead to fit the story
b) …to set goals for their characters, and pursue them proactively
c) …to fling their characters into tough situations and make hard, sometimes, unwise choices

Doing the smartest thing for your character’s survival…
a) …is what a good player does.
b) …sometimes isn’t as important as other choices
c) …isn’t even a concern or focus for this game.

The GM’s role to the rules is…
a) …follow them, come what may. (including following house rules)
b) …ignore them when they conflict with what would be good for the story
c) …ignore them when they conflict with what “should” happen, based either on realism, the setting, or the genre

After many sessions of play, during one session, a player decides to have her character side with an enemy. This is…
a) …something that shouldn’t even happen. This is someone being a jerk.
b) …where the character becomes an NPC, right away or fairly soon.
c) …something the player and the GM should have set up ahead of time.
d) …only going to last until the other player characters find out and do something about it.
e) …a meaningful moment, powerful and an example of excellent play.
Let's talk about all these questions! Also concepts. Ready, steady, go!
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  #2  
Unread 2nd of May, 2011, 15:42
beowulf
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Let's start with the first question:

Do you play to win?
a) Yes, you totally play to win! The win conditions are...
b) Good play isn't a win/lose kind of thing.

Which do we prefer, as a group? I'm generally in the b) camp, but how should we run this game?
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  #3  
Unread 2nd of May, 2011, 20:09
GIJ00
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I'll just give all my answers now! =P Just my two cents is all.

Do you play to win?
b) Good play isn't a win/lose kind of thing.

Player characters are:
d) pursuing their own agendas – they might work together, they might work against each other

The players’ roles are…
b) …to set goals for their characters, and pursue them proactively

Doing the smartest thing for your character’s survival…
b) …sometimes isn’t as important as other choices

The GM’s role to the rules is…
c) …ignore them when they conflict with what “should” happen, based either on realism, the setting, or the genre

After many sessions of play, during one session, a player decides to have her character side with an enemy. This is…
c) …something the player and the GM should have set up ahead of time.
e) …a meaningful moment, powerful and an example of excellent play.
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  #4  
Unread 2nd of May, 2011, 21:00
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I shall answer in the form of: Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start!

but in reality: b, b or c, d, a, any depending on the storyline, b and c, e (cuz some times the "enemy" is the "good" guy)
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  #5  
Unread 3rd of May, 2011, 02:47
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Konami code FTW.

Do you play to win?

B - not the point.

Player characters are:
a) expected to work together; conflicts between them are mostly for show
-is my preference, however, if it is stated to be another type at the outset, I'm fine with playing to that. If it's stated that it's supposed to be a), but one or two other people decide to play d) or e), I'd get frustrated.

The GM’s role is:
I'd like some things to be planned by the DM to keep things fresh or moving when neceessary, but usually, sandboxes are fun.

The players’ roles are…
dependent upon what kind of game the DM/players agree on. Obviously, the players running their own stories completely when the DM has a story designed is terrible, but so is the players waiting for plot hooks or a trail in a sandbox.

Doing the smartest thing for your character’s survival…
Is only a concern for the character as far as the character wants to survive. If I run a Paladin of Lawful Goodiness and he dies saving a village from an evil horde, that's cool. If I am running a selfish rogue, number one will care much more. Either way getting knifed in his sleep with no warning (in or out of character) or chance to avoid it sucks every time. (ie. if the ST pm's me and says, I've got a cool death planned for you, it'll advance the story or just be awesome for the character, I'd be down with it. Thinking it's business as usual, logging on to find a post about my death with 0 heads up or perception roles or truly stupid choices on my part would be depressing)

The GM’s role to the rules is…
b) …ignore them when they conflict with what would be good for the story
- but please be clear about how this might look at the outset.

After many sessions of play, during one session, a player decides to have her character side with an enemy. This is…
normally I'd say a), but for changeling, I think it belongs totally up in the air.
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  #6  
Unread 3rd of May, 2011, 06:07
beowulf
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It's good that you all throw your preferences out there, but we should all settle on one answer for each question. This thing is called the "Same Page Sheet", and I've used it a few times when playing with friends to good effect. The idea is that we all have expectations for how a game should go, so it's good to get those expectations on the table and discuss them. In the end, we should all be able to agree on one answer for each of the questions.

I'm going to go ahead and say that "B" is our probable answer for question 1. There is at least one more player's opinion to consider, and if there's dissent we can discuss it, but I don't expect anything like that.

My preference for players working together is probably "C". I think it's fun when everyone does their own thing and allies with whoever they will ("D"), but it's less fun on a forum environment if no one interacts on a regular basis.

My default GM tendencies are strongly in favor of "C", not planning anything out and letting you guys drive everything. This doesn't mean I won't create content--it's just that everything I create will be tied to your characters. This is up for discussion, though; I can GM differently if that's what we want.

Also, a side note: I will use everything you put on your character sheets. I have nothing prepared for this game, and I won't prepare anything until I see character sheets. If you take Weaponry I'm going to assume that you want to use it, and while I won't artificially insert reasons for you to roll Weaponry every other post, I will keep your skillset in mind and make sure you get to use it. If you take Dream Contracts, I'm going to assume you want to do stuff with dreams. If you take the Dream Duelist Fighting Style, I'm going to assume you want to do battle with a rival duelist. Etc etc.

I'll get to the rest of the questions after we've had a chance to discuss. Also, feel free to start telling us about your concepts. Once everyone has posted their concept, you guys are free to start creating characters.
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  #7  
Unread 3rd of May, 2011, 16:26
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Do you play to win?
b) Good play isn’t a win/lose kind of thing
Sounds good to me. I'm not even sure what it means to 'win' an rpg...

Player characters are:
a-c) expected to work together...
I'd tend toward C or B over A, just to keep things interesting, but I agree with The Dude that D and E sound less fun. GIJ00, you expressed a preference for D, so how do you feel about agreeing to work together?

The GM’s role is:
c) The GM has no plan – the GM simply plays the NPCs and has them act or react based on their motivations.
C is the winning strategy, especially on a forum-based game where coming up with material in the heat of the moment isn't even a concern. This is how I GM, so I support the game being run this way.

The players’ roles are…
b) …to set goals for their characters, and pursue them proactively
I do like a little chaos now and again (choice C), but for a group, I think B is the best answer. If the GM's role is to tailor the game to the player's actions, then choice A won't get us far.

Doing the smartest thing for your character’s survival…
b) …sometimes isn’t as important as other choices
I think we're converging on B here, with the understanding that this kind of play works best if we trust the GM not to punish us for taking risks.

The GM’s role to the rules is…
…definitely to ignore the rules sometimes, but I'm not entirely clear on what the line is between B and C.

After many sessions of play, during one session, a player decides to have her character side with an enemy. This is…
e) …a meaningful moment, powerful and an example of excellent play.
I'm planning on playing a Darkling, so this would feed my paranoia in all the right ways.
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  #8  
Unread 4th of May, 2011, 03:42
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As far as the GM/rules interaction question:

B is the ST allowing rules-slippage due to story, for example, a guy coming out of the alley to rob Character A rolls 16 successes on a 6 dice attack. By the rules, Character A (assuming 3 or less stamina) is a dead, dead dude. But that makes a crappy story, so the Story Teller states that the damage was capped at 6 for story purposes, and Character A gets a chance to retaliate or escape.

C is the ST allowing rules-slippage for realism reasons. Character B jumps off the the sears tower in a suicide attempt. The 50 dice of damage the ground rolls against him garners 0 successes - the Character hits the pavement, stands up, and walks away. The Story Teller rules that the Character is dead anyways.

That was how I understood the two anyway. If that's not correct, please let me know. Both just seemed to be adjusting results from dice being retarded sometimes.
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  #9  
Unread 4th of May, 2011, 04:20
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Thanks Dude, that makes sense. Based on that, I'd say my expectation would be B, leaning toward C whenever realism would also help the story.
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  #10  
Unread 4th of May, 2011, 05:25
beowulf
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I'm leaning towards B, but I wouldn't pull punches much in favor of my NPCs. I'm not really going to fudge the dice, because that isn't fun for me, but I will interpret things in a way that makes sense for the verisimilitude of the game. If you narrate your character jumping off the Sears Tower in order to commit suicide, I'm not going to roll anything. You're just dead.

If you put a gun to a dude's head and pull the trigger, that dude is probably dead. If it's an important NPC or character, it depends. Does the player care if the character dies? If no, then no dice, just death. If yes, then we'll roll the dice to see the extent of the damage, hospitalization time, and all that crap. Or we'll just make it up as appropriate.

The short of it is: I'm not interested in getting bogged down with the rules, but I do like the rules. This won't suddenly become a freeform game, but you won't die in unsatisfying ways because of the dice.
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Unread 4th of May, 2011, 07:51
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Character concept time. I'm still working out the specifics, but in terms of seeming and court, I'd like to play a Darkling Antiquarian/Mirrorskin dual kith, associated with the Autumn Court. He's an investigator of some kind, with a little hardboiled flavor—but nothing too cliche, don't worry. That sound reasonable?
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  #12  
Unread 4th of May, 2011, 14:45
beowulf
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Sounds good to me. Is he going to be police or a private sector type?
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  #13  
Unread 4th of May, 2011, 14:58
beowulf
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Do you play to win?
b) Good play isn’t a win/lose kind of thing

Player characters are:
a) expected to work together; conflicts between them are mostly for show
b) expected to work together; but major conflicts might erupt but you’ll patch them up given some time

The GM’s role is:
c) The GM has no plan – the GM simply plays the NPCs and has them act or react based on their motivations

The players’ roles are…
b) …to set goals for their characters, and pursue them proactively

Doing the smartest thing for your character’s survival…
b) …sometimes isn’t as important as other choices
c) …isn’t even a concern or focus for this game.

The GM’s role to the rules is…
b) …ignore them when they conflict with what would be good for the story
c) …ignore them when they conflict with what “should” happen, based either on realism, the setting, or the genre

After many sessions of play, during one session, a player decides to have her character side with an enemy. This is…
c) …something the player and the GM should have set up ahead of time.
e) …a meaningful moment, powerful and an example of excellent play.
Does that look about where we are now? Let me know if I eliminated the wrong options, but looking over the conversation seems to indicate that this is correct.

The final question could go either way. Just because you pick C doesn't mean it isn't also E, it just means that it needs to be set up by the player and the GM. If you pick E, that means it's all on the player. I'm torn between the two, due to the logistics of play-by-post games. I'd hate for things to get confused. All in all, though, I'm leaning towards E.

I think our answer for the GM's role to the rules is probably C. You guys seem more interested in eliminating events that don't make any sense in the world we decide to play in, rather than mechanically railroading things to fit an individual story. At least, that's my take on it (and I like it).

The question on character survival seems to be leaning towards B. We assume you want your character to survive, but sometimes things are worth dying for.

How am I doing?
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  #14  
Unread 4th of May, 2011, 21:21
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Captain Gavis
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I think that is a good summary of things. As to storyline creation I will probably need a bit of help since this is my first time using this particular setting (thus far I have only done vampire/werewolf/mage in the world of darkness)
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Unread 4th of May, 2011, 21:54
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I agree with the summary as well. As my initial concept was to be an Elemental Levinquick/Mirrorskin dual kith investigator, I'm going to do some re-work to avoid some heavy over-lap. More later.
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Unread 5th of May, 2011, 09:28
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Sorry about that, Dude. If you were really looking forward to using that concept, let me know and I can probably re-work instead. Otherwise, I look forward to hearing about your new idea.
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Unread 5th of May, 2011, 09:56
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Noob question #1: You can have more than one Kith?
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  #18  
Unread 5th of May, 2011, 10:09
beowulf
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There's a merit in Spring Rites, and some stuff on it in Winter Masques.

For the record, we're gonna use the Spring Rites version of the Dual Kith merit. That is, two dots for a second kith within your seeming, and three dots for a second kith from another seeming.
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  #19  
Unread 5th of May, 2011, 10:11
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Hurray another source book to acquire and cram into my eyes!
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  #20  
Unread 6th of May, 2011, 00:47
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Obgoblin - No, keep your idea. Coming up with new characters is one of my favorite things to do, I was just letting everyone know why I was not posting a concept right away when I've had a week to think on it.

For my new concept I've settled on rocking an Elemental Pledgesmith, pending a response from the message I'm sending to Beowulf. He would be super-interested in team-ups with the Darkling Investigator. He'll probably have an extra to donate toward group hallow as well.
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Unread 6th of May, 2011, 03:56
beowulf
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Yeah, you guys should definitely consider a group Hallow. That way you can each give 1-2 points and have a good place to use as sanctuary without giving up all your Merit points. Also, do you want to be a pledged Motley from the outset, or shall we let that happen in play?

So far we have an Elemental and a Darkling. Anyone else have concepts? What Courts do you guys belong to? What city should we set this in? I was thinking Seattle or San Fransisco. I've run plenty of games in both of those cities, being a veteran Shadowrun GM back in the day. =D

Also, I'm starting to form ideas for the game. Since we have an investigative type and what one might a Fae legal professional (pledgecrafting), we could start the game out with whatever Court is in charge having you investigate a series of Bad Things (Changeling murders, disappearances, Gentry sympathizers or spies, etc).

Finally: GIJ00, given that your concept is already related to the Hedge and stuff, have you considered being an Oneiromancer? No pressure or anything at all, I just really like the Hedge and Contracts of Dreaming. =D If you're not interested please don't feel like I'm requesting anything. I will be just as happy either way.
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  #22  
Unread 6th of May, 2011, 08:04
GIJ00
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Yeah Beo, I had actually considered that. I took a look at the Dream Combat bit and it seems quite spiff, so I'd considered investing rather heavily into it.
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  #23  
Unread 6th of May, 2011, 09:32
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Been looking through the material and I think I might be interested in playing a Wizened (i like the idea of being a craftsman or performer). is there any advice you could give me on what are some decent builds so I dont end up being the odd man out?
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Unread 6th of May, 2011, 11:17
beowulf
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I'm not too good at this sort of thing, Gavis, but I would suggest maybe being some sort of information broker. If you want to go the performance route, be some sort of bardic type maybe? Charismatic owner of a jazz bar frequented by the local Changeling population? We can work that out if that's interesting to you. Don't take my suggestions as preferences, though; you play the character you wanna play, and I'll worry about working it out. =D
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  #25  
Unread 6th of May, 2011, 21:42
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Was just looking at Dream combat....I agree with GIJOO. I would be willing to also go that route for build.
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