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  #1  
Unread 7th of June, 2012, 22:53
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OOC for D&D Next Playtest

I think Gral is probably right that we should have a separate OOC thread.
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Unread 7th of June, 2012, 22:57
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I am requesting a forum, we can shove it in there.
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Unread 7th of June, 2012, 23:04
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Don't bother with the request, I'll take care of it.

But on to questions:
1) The minimum check that Merc mentioned in his stealth roll (his ability score, it seemed) - does that apply to all checks, or is it some special halfling or rogue thing?
2) My dwarf is stupid, but seriously, they picked the mechanically worst possible armor they could for him. Heavy armor with 15 AC. It is the same AC as a chain shirt but is more expensive, heavier, allows no dex bonus, and grants disadvantage on stealth.
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Unread 7th of June, 2012, 23:18
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1. It's a rogue thing. They have a minimum roll of 10 with any skill check they have training in.
2. Hahaha what? That's stupid. Why would they do that? A simple chain shirt would be better in every way for anyone with 12 Dex or higher (such as the fighter). I dunno, you should change that or something, jeez. They must have just included that because "of course the fighter should wear heavy armor."
e: Actually I'm not sure why everyone (except the wizard) isn't wearing a chain shirt. There doesn't seem to be any drawback over leather, and it's also a better choice than scale or chainmail for these stats.
I mean, "cost," but it's actually less than chainmail, and not that much more expensive than leather and scale.
e2: Seems like chain shirt is at least meant to be something you find as treasure, something that light armor users can look forward to as an upgrade. Maybe price it at 250g (as in, out of reach of 1st level characters)?
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Last edited by zachol; 7th of June, 2012 at 23:33.
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Unread 7th of June, 2012, 23:30
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Right, good to know. I couldn't see any upside for choosing heavy armor (there really ought to be something good over and above AC that entices you to wear heavy armor).
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Unread 7th of June, 2012, 23:40
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Originally Posted by Gralhruk # 1) The minimum check that Merc mentioned in his stealth roll (his ability score, it seemed) - does that apply to all checks, or is it some special halfling or rogue thing?
As zachol said, that's a rogue feature.

2) My dwarf is stupid, but seriously, they picked the mechanically worst possible armor they could for him. Heavy armor with 15 AC. It is the same AC as a chain shirt but is more expensive, heavier, allows no dex bonus, and grants disadvantage on stealth.
Originally Posted by zachol # 2. Hahaha what? That's stupid. Why would they do that? A simple chain shirt would be better in every way for anyone with 12 Dex or higher (such as the fighter). I dunno, you should change that or something, jeez. They must have just included that because "of course the fighter should wear heavy armor."
e: Actually I'm not sure why everyone (except the wizard) isn't wearing a chain shirt. There doesn't seem to be any drawback over leather, and it's also a better choice than scale or chainmail for these stats.
I mean, "cost," but it's actually less than chainmail, and not that much more expensive than leather and scale.
Armor is specifically something being called out in multiple forums as being inherently wrong. I like the idea of breaking them up based on Dexterity bonus (All, Half, None), but you are almost always better with the chain shirt in all circumstances, which shows that there is something wrong with the design. I noted as much in my feedback survey. I cannot think of any situation where I would take any medium armor over the Chain Shirt. And if I have a character with any kind of Dex modifier at all, I'm always better taking Chain Shirt than Ring, Scale, Splint, or Chainmail.

It's one of those things...if there's a clear "best choice" then something is wrong.
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Unread 7th of June, 2012, 23:43
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Looking at monster attacks, it feels like light armor AC is starting out too high. Maybe bump it down by 1?

e: Oh goodness how did this get here?
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Unread 7th of June, 2012, 23:46
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I was looking at it and thinking light armors should all bump down 1 and all other armors should bump up 2. You'd have a range of 11 to 20.
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Unread 7th of June, 2012, 23:49
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That way you'd have an AC 17 Chain Shirt with 18 Dex, or AC 17 Chainmail with 10 Dex.
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Unread 7th of June, 2012, 23:49
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I think heavier armor should grant some sort of DR, or bonus when you are surprised, or bonuses against multiple opponents or something. It's covering more of your body, so when you aren't actively defending it should provide greater protection than armor that doesn't provide as much coverage.
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Unread 7th of June, 2012, 23:50
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Hmm, but monster attacks seem to generally top out at +4 +5 +6 or so.
If we're going with flat math/"numbers don't go up," I'd really hesitate to have AC be that high, especially with shields and probably a handful of other things to increase AC.
Maybe if you emphasized how utterly amazing and rare and special adamantine armor is or something but still.

e: Make that +5 for trolls and stirges.
Stirges look like a prime source of TPKs to me.
e2: Aw, couple of +6's. Hmm.
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Unread 7th of June, 2012, 23:52
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That's true, z, but looking at the price tag alone should give some hints of that.

The problem is that a Chain Shirt with 20 Dex should never provide more protection than Adamantine Full Plate, and even if you just bump down the Light Armors by 1, a Chain Shirt with 20 Dex is still a superior choice.
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Unread 7th of June, 2012, 23:54
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I think Gral might be on to something with DR, though.
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Unread 8th of June, 2012, 00:00
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I thought about DR, but it seems like you'd want it to scale. Part of the point of the flat math/whatever is that damage steadily increases into higher levels, so DR 1 isn't nearly as good later on.
Maybe have DR 2, 3, 4 for the next "levels" of heavy armor? Adamantine plate would be AC 18, +2 for a shield for 20, with DR 4. The rogue assassin would have AC 20 as well, but no DR.

e: Ugh it's late and I can't think straight. Numbers hurt.
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Last edited by zachol; 8th of June, 2012 at 00:03.
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Unread 8th of June, 2012, 00:05
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Yeah, I mean, I don't really want to mess around with the rules much anyway.
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Unread 8th of June, 2012, 00:07
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Oh, I'm not suggesting we mess with the rules at all. I'd like to play it as written exactly, then we can provide feedback on what breaks down and what should be done to fix it.

So far, the only things I've found that I just outright dislike is overnight healing of all HP and Armor that makes the Chain Shirt the clear best option for just about any character.
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Unread 8th of June, 2012, 10:05
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Rasputyne and I were actually just having this conversation about armor. As is with no limit on money for buying armor anyone with +1 or less dex will go for adamantine armor and any one +3 or higher is going to take mithral. The only person who would even think of using dragon scale is the poor guy who has a +2 dex mod and doesn't want the movement speed hit.

E-- apparently Gabriel can't hit the broadside of a barn even with magic.

Last edited by Captain Gavis; 8th of June, 2012 at 10:17.
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Unread 8th of June, 2012, 19:26
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And apparently the kobolds are damn good shots.
And stabbers.
Huh.

e: Proposal:
Pressing On - When you take a short rest, you may use your hit dice to regain hit points. If you choose to press on and face another encounter after a short rest, you regain the use of your hit dice for the day.
Otherwise it seems to me like characters are going to tap out pretty damn quick and "we retreat to a cleared room/the forest/the keep to rest" is dumb and boring.

e2: Not necessarily that, mind you, but something like that.
The idea here is that it encourages the party to keep moving. There's no limit to the healing, except that you need to deliberately progress to a new encounter for the dice to refresh, and you're limited to one dice after each encounter. You can't heal up to full, but you're not limited to pretty much two encounters per day.

e3 (ha ha, topical!): Or maybe that's just an unusual amount of damage?
The fighter should really have higher AC.
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Last edited by zachol; 8th of June, 2012 at 21:01.
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Unread 8th of June, 2012, 21:17
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I propose not changing the rules for the playtest and just pressing on with them as written. But that's just my personal opinion.

Also - any particular reason you didn't actually resolve Finnegan's attack and left it open? I just figured you'd finish out the round.
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Unread 8th of June, 2012, 21:43
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Still need Yorek and Rhaemiel's actions, I think?
We can avoid house rules etc. for now yeah. Although if you guys keep sleeping all the time I'll be peeved.

Peeved.
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Last edited by zachol; 8th of June, 2012 at 21:45.
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Unread 8th of June, 2012, 22:05
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But what if Rasputyne puts us to sleep, hmmm? Is sleep acceptable then?
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Unread 8th of June, 2012, 22:30
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Easiest TPK ever!
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Unread 8th of June, 2012, 22:38
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We need the K without the TP.

On armor, I almost feel like Chain Shirt should be the most attractive choice for an adventurer. I mean, these guys are routinely climbing walls, leaping chasms, sneaking into lairs, and running for their lives. They need some mobility and a passing chance at stealth. It's not like they are generally riding around the countryside engaging in military battles (where heavier armor is more beneficial than detrimental).

I actually think having heavier armor end up with similar AC to the chain shirt + dex isn't necessarily bad, in that respect. That's kind of why I'm thinking along the lines of some other type of bonus for heavy armor - in other words, situationally useful on an adventure, and not just in a military battle. If you need to sneak or run away, chain shirt is better but if you get ganked by surprise (or something), heavy armor is better.
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Unread 8th of June, 2012, 23:34
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Oh die roller, why do you hate me so?
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Unread 8th of June, 2012, 23:37
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Hey, at least you kill kobolds even on a miss.
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