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Unread 25th of December, 2007, 05:31
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Psionic Tournament Rules and Discussion

Psionic Tournament Rules

Character Creation
  • All characters must be be able to manifest at least one 4th level power.
  • Characters will be built using the Point Buy rules and will have 32 points. Attribute adjustments due to age will be allowed, but adjustments must be made prior to taking the first class level.
  • Races allowed: any race or template from the allowed resources is permitted, however no character may have a total LA of +2 or higher (LA +1 is ok). The races and subraces from Unearthed Arcana (as found in the SRD) are also acceptable, however the rest of Unearthed Arcana is off limits.
  • Hit Points will follow the RPGA standard (max on first HD, half die size +1 for rest).
  • Characters will start with 67,500 Experience Points. This will allow for characters of up to ECL 12, but extensive use of Item Creation feats could reduce that level.
  • Equipment values will be based on the standard levels for PCs, thus you will have 88,000 gold to spend.
  • You may spend no more than half of your total gold on any one item.
  • Items will be limited to what is available in the allowed resources. You may not use the item creation rules to make unique items.
  • Items or abilities that cast or mimic spells above sixth level are not permitted.
  • One-use items will be limited to no more than 5000gp in total value. This includes items with expendible charges (i.e. this does not include items with x uses/day or week).
  • Charged items must be purchased fully charged (wands, staves, etc.)
  • Item creation feats may be used to save money, but XP must be spent and may effectively lower your level. You must be of the correct level or higher to create an item.
  • You may create or purchase custom wands, staves, potions, etc. Wondrous items, magic armor and magic weapons are limited to those listed in the available resources.
  • If your character requires a spellbook you get free spells added to your book as given for your class. Any additional spells must be scribed into the book at the cost of 100gps per page/level. This is the only cost for additional spells.
  • Allowed resources: SRD, Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master’s Guide, Monster Manual, Complete: Adventurer, Complete: Arcane, Complete: Divine, Complete: Warrior, Complete: Psionic Expanded Psionic Handbook. Note: The current Errata and FAQ will be used.
  • This is supposed to be fun. With that in mind anyone may object to a character that seems unbalanced before the battles start. I will review the character and will have final say on which characters may join the contest.
  • If you wish you may provide a picture of your character to be used in the duels. They should be 40x40 in size. If not I will try to reduce them to fit, but I make no guarantees.
Game Rules
  • The Rules as Written will be followed as closely as possible. In the case of an unclear rule I will make a judgment as best I can. You may contest any ruling once. I will review the arguments and make a final judgment. Final judgments are just that, final.
  • You may use the ORP.com dice roller function if you would like to roll your own dice. If you do not, or if other rolls are needed, I will roll them myself, and either way I will determine and post the results of all actions.
  • Each player will have 24 hours to post their move when it is their turn. Weekends will not count toward the 24 hour limit, but duels may still be updated during that time. If you fail to post in 24 hours you will be assumed to take a total defense action and the next player’s turn will start.
  • Each player will be allowed to enter up to two contestants. Each contestant should be significantly different in some way.
  • Psionic/Magic transparency is in full effect. Note that this does not change the requirement that all characters must be able to manifest at least one 4th level power.
Psionic Tournament Rules
  • To gain entry into the Psionic Tournament, each combatant must manifest a power of at least 4th level.
  • The Psionic Tournament will be a round robin competition. All characters are slaves owned by mindflayers, and the losers of the round robin will be consumed by the owner of the winning combatant.
  • A defeat is a defeat, whether caused by death or debilitation.
  • Any characters killed will be raised. If killed, d% will be rolled and upon a roll of 1-75, the character's owner will pay for a resurrection. Upon a roll of 76-100, the character's owner will purchase a True Resurrection.
  • Combatants may not have any active effects at the commencement of a fight, although weapons with an enchantment which causes extra dice of damage may be active or not at the beginning of a fight at the combatant's option.
  • In the case of odd competitors, a bye will be awarded to advance one to the next round. No Player may receive more than one bye unless all remaining players have had one. A bye does not count as a loss, but it also does not count as a win.
  • If both combatants are knocked unconscious simultaneously it will be a draw, and the battle will be re-fought the next day. In the case of simultaneous death, both combatants lose, and will be consumed by each other's owners.
  • Every combatant will fight each day unless they have a bye.
  • Duelists and their familiars or animal companions or special mounts will be fully healed after each match. Between fights they will have time to rest and prepare new spells.
  • Familiars, animal companions, and special mounts will be allowed, however the leadership feat will not.
  • The arena will be a 100’ diameter circle and the combatants will start at opposite sides. The ground within the arena will be sand. Familiars will start in the same square as their master or in an adjacent square. The arena is surrounded by stands for spectators. You may travel up to 10' underground or up to 200' into the air.
  • If a combatant is forced out of the arena or to another plane, combat will be paused and the other combatant will be required to remain in place until the displaced combatant can be returned.
  • Victory is achieved by disabling or killing your opponent, although disabling or forcing a yield is prefered, as your master gets to snack on the brains of your defeated opponents and dead brains don't taste good. The ultimate victor of the tournament will be granted his or her life and freedom.
  • The competitors are permitted to watch other fights, so each knows about abilities that have been previously used in this tournament. Obviously, with the loser of each fight being killed or eaten, they have never faced each other before.
Signups will begin on or about December 31, 2007, and will close on or about January 11, 2008.
I will answer questions about the rules in this thread and will update this post with clarifications and new rules.
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Last edited by Boomlaor; 29th of January, 2008 at 06:18.
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  #2  
Unread 25th of December, 2007, 08:31
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Oooooooooh... awesome! It's Christmas eve in Germany, so I'll be taking a closer look at this over the course of the next days.
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Unread 25th of December, 2007, 08:48
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“ Originally Posted by Tashalar # Oooooooooh... awesome! It's Christmas eve in Germany, so I'll be taking a closer look at this over the course of the next days. ”
What a coincidence! It's Christmas Eve here in the States as well.

I didn't see the Expanded Psionics Handbook listed in the allowed resources. Is it supposed to be?
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Unread 25th of December, 2007, 08:50
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“ What a coincidence! It's Christmas Eve here in the States as well. ”
Ah, but you are lying! Christmas eve is on the 25th in the states. It's on the 24th in Germany.

... or did I get something terribly wrong?

“ I didn't see the Expanded Psionics Handbook listed in the allowed resources. Is it supposed to be? ”
It's on the SRD and the SRD is allowed, so.... I guess, yeah.
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Unread 25th of December, 2007, 23:57
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What about psionic/magic transparency (or whatever it's called)?

Leadership is disallowed - what about the thrallherd ability?

What will the arena be like?

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Unread 27th of December, 2007, 03:32
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-Magic/psionic transparency is in full effect, through all characters must still be able to manifest at least a 4th lvl power.

-Thrallherd, likewise, needs to be disallowed. These characters are slaves themselves, they don't have followers (plus, in a 1 on 1 tournament, it's just no good)

-The arena I had envisioned as similar to a gladitorial arena, 100 foot diameter circle, sand floor, surrounded by stands for spectators and bettors. This is open to suggestions, however.

-Allowable races will include all those with a LA of +1 or less

Last edited by Boomlaor; 27th of December, 2007 at 03:34.
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Unread 27th of December, 2007, 06:50
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Are templates permitted?

I will be participating.
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Unread 27th of December, 2007, 21:27
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“ Originally Posted by Link Are templates permitted? ”
If yes, are they limited to LA+1 as well?

“ Items will be limited to what is available in the allowed resources. You may not use the item creation rules to make unique items. ”
Does this imply the same ruling on items that goes for the CR Challenge (where is your character btw, Boom? )

“ Items or abilities that cast or mimic spells above 5th level are not permitted. ”
Just as a clarification - this does not include items where you need a spell of above 5th level to craft it but which is not actually cast with said item?

“ One-use items will be limited to no more than 5000gp in total value. ”
But they cost as normal (not 2x or 5x the standard cost)?
Furthermore, will they be replenished between matches or will they be gone (I'm 99% sure what the answer will be though )?

“ Any additional spells must be scribed into the book at the cost of 100gps per page/level. ”
This implies the character has a mentor from whom he gets access to scribe those spells for free, correct? The only cost to learn spell is 100 gp / level?

“ This is supposed to be fun. ”
Uh... huh? I don't get it... care to elaborate?

Allowed resources: Anything that is in the Expanded Psionics handbook but is not on the SRD is disallowed, correct (no idea if something is missing though)?
What about all the other stuff on the SRD - Unearthed Arcana, anyone?

“ Combatants may not have any active effects at the commencement of a fight, although weapons with an enchantment which causes extra dice of damage may be active or not at the beginning of a fight at the combatant's option. ”
No active anything except what you mentioned - good. But how does the duel actually commence? The opponents stand in their predetermined squares, approximately 100' across, and initiative is rolled? Everything goes from round one?
What if a competitor is forced out of the arena or to another plane?

Btw - what do competitors know of other competitors? Do they know what they can do (approximately) and what not like in the gladiatorial tournament? Or don't they know anything at all?

Oh, and I'll be participating. Spikey was my first psionic character ever - so I can use this to find out more about psionics. ECL 12 will yield some crazy builds, I'm sure - but learning by dying and then watching works fine for me as well.
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 01:41
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-I'll allow templates of LA +1 or less. Total LA for the character must be +1 or less, however, so if you have a racial LA you can't have a template with a LA.

-Item creation clarification: custom wands, potions, or staves are ok. Wondrous items, weapons, and armor are limited to the options in the available resources. This all presumes, of course, the appropriate item creation feats.

-Minor change here. Items or abilities which cast or mimic spells or powers of 6th level or higher are prohibited. A straight Psion 12 can manifest up to 6th lvl powers. I don't want items to be able to be more powerful than that.

-Correct, single use items cost as normal, but the total of single use items (includes wands, staves, etc) may not exceed 5,000 gp and expended items shall not be replaced.

-Tashalar's assumption about the costs of spells is correct. You do not need to pay anything for spells beyond the cost to scribe them.

-I don't have a copy of XPH, so that's why I didn't list it. Unless I can get a copy of it somehow, I'll have to allow any of it that is in the SRD, since I do have access to that, and dissallow anything from the XPH not in the SRD (if there is anything).

-I'll allow the use of the races and subraces from Unearthed Arcana as found in the SRD. As the focus of this is a psionic tournament, I'll dissallow the rest of it.

-Each fight will commence with the combatants on opposite ends of the arena. Their mindflayer masters will keep them in check untill the judges give a signal, at which time the combatants are released and initiative is rolled. Surprise rounds are possible. Everything goes.

-If a combatant is forced out of the arena or to another plane, combat will be paused and the other combatant will be required to remain in place until the displaced combatant can be returned. Victory is achieved by disabling or killing your opponent, although disabling or forcing a yield is prefered, as your master gets to snack on the brains of your defeated opponents and dead brains don't taste good. The ultimate victor of the tournament will be granted his or her life and freedom.

-The competitors are permitted to watch other fights, so each knows about abilities that have been previously used in this tournament. Obviously, with the loser of each fight being killed or eaten, they have never faced each other before.
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 01:51
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“ -Correct, single use items cost as normal, but the total of single use items (includes wands, staves, etc) may not exceed 5,000 gp and expended items shall not be replaced. ”
Um.. are you sure you want to include staves and wands (and dorjes and... whatever) as single-use items? I'm fine with it but a 5k gp limit is effectively a ban for staves...

“ Each fight will commence with the combatants on opposite ends of the arena. Their mindflayer masters will keep them in check untill the judges give a signal, at which time the combatants are released and initiative is rolled. Surprise rounds are possible. Everything goes. ”
Are you sure? If we roll initiative, then surprise rounds are already out, are the not?

“ The ultimate victor of the tournament will be granted his or her life and freedom. ”
Finally a goal that is worth fighting for!

“ The competitors are permitted to watch other fights, so each knows about abilities that have been previously used in this tournament. Obviously, with the loser of each fight being killed or eaten, they have never faced each other before. ”
Okay, this makes sense. It might make it hard not to metagame though. I can PM you an example if you'd like.
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 02:46
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-Yes, anything with charges that don't replenish (i.e. x per day, etc) is a single use item. This may ban staves, but I'd like this to be a character building tournament rather than a gear focused tournament.

-You're right about surprise rounds. I meant that it would be possible to find an opponent flat-footed in the first round.

-You can PM or post the example, and I'll consider changing the rule, but for now, we'll have to deal with the possibility of metagaming.
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 03:01
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I'd like to unofficially reserve a character concept:
Great Aunt Lilith who belittles you with such demeaning insults that you just give up on life.

She'll be a wilder focusing on ego whip.
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 03:11
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Sounds awesome, Slag. Simple, but efficient.

“ This may ban staves, but I'd like this to be a character building tournament rather than a gear focused tournament. ”
You might want to reduce the amount of gold in that case...

I'll send you an example.

Btw - is there a cap on PPs that an elan can spend to evade damage? With only a single fight a day, this can be a significant benefit.
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 04:08
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http://www.systemreferencedocuments....onicItems.html
Down at the bottom there are some special materials including deep crystal.

This sounds like a cheap and effective way to win. Easily. Simply channel tons of PPs through the weapon and... win. Am I missing something about this deep crystal or is it as awesome (and cheap) as it seems to be?

But... how many PPs can one invest in one round concerning this free-action-damage move? Maximum up to the manifest level?
Does the same count for the 'negate damage ability' of the elan?
Or are they both limitless?
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 04:20
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“ Originally Posted by article from Tash While a weapon made of deep crystal is no different from a mundane crystal weapon for a nonpsionic character, a psionic wielder of a deep crystal weapon can focus psionic power through it, increasing the damage that weapon deals. As a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, the wielder can channel psionic power into a melee weapon or ranged weapon made of deep crystal. For 2 power points, the deep crystal weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of damage. The weapon will stay charged for 1 minute or until it scores its next hit. Bows, crossbows, and slings bestow this power on their ammunition. All missile weapons lose this effect if they miss. However, they may be recovered and charged again. ”
I think that means the weapon has two states: charged and not charged. Charging it costs a free action and two PP. If it hits while charged, it deals an extra 2d6 damage. It can't be charged arbitrarily high.
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 04:21
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As I read the deep crystal entry, it allows only to spend 2 pp on it for an increase of 2d6. Still pretty nice, but not scalable.

I believe that the Elan ability is limited only by your pool of pp, but it's a once per round thing as an immediate action.
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 04:48
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Since we don't have a sign-up thread yet and Slag is reserving character concepts I will reserve my own.

I am making a Elan Rogue/Psion/Shadowmind. Should be fun.
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 05:02
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Ah, I see. I knew I must've been missing something.

Oh, and I'll add some kind of lurk to the fray. Yay.

Edit: Hm... but if you have two deep crystal weapons and greater two-weapon fighting and haste - can one attack five times and recharge both weapons each time after the attack as a free action? I looked at the description of deep crystal and saw nothing which contradicts this...
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 06:08
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Hmmm....

I might play a Lurk, just for kicks.

Or more likely, an Shaper.
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 06:58
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I really don't see the deep crystal as being over-powering. Compared to some of the 6th level powers it isn't that deadly.
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 07:43
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Actually, the great thing about psionic powers vs. spells is scalability. The more power you put into it, the more power you get out. Thus, most power as a manifester comes from raising the maximum amount of power you can put into something. However, the deep crystal comes with an inherent 2 power point limitation, which greatly limits it.

I might even consider allowing a variant that costs a lot more money for my games. It would function so that you can spend 1 power point for 1d6 bonus damage, and have the scale be equal to your manifester level (I.E. maximum points you can spend is your manifester level).

It's good for burst damage, but not for long drawn out fights.

I also take it that soulknife focused builds are out of the question due to the 4th level power requirement.

*sigh* no thri-kreen soulknife/soulbows for me.
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 08:01
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Good news, I've come accross the XPH, so it is now an allowable resource.
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 17:35
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“ Originally Posted by Tashalar # You might want to reduce the amount of gold in that case... ”
66,000gp really isn't that much. The only unbalancing thing about equipment is when you use one-use items out of proportion to their intended use.
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Unread 28th of December, 2007, 20:50
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“ 66,000gp really isn't that much. The only unbalancing thing about equipment is when you use one-use items out of proportion to their intended use. ”
Agreed. There are still quite a few neat items with 1/day or 3/day uses that work nicely though. But... there's not really a reason why not to use those, eh?

“ Actually, the great thing about psionic powers vs. spells is scalability. The more power you put into it, the more power you get out. Thus, most power as a manifester comes from raising the maximum amount of power you can put into something. However, the deep crystal comes with an inherent 2 power point limitation, which greatly limits it. ”
You are right - and that counts the most (if I get this correctly) for psionic classes who do not get a new power level every other class level (lurk, psychic warrior, etc...).
For a psion, augmenting a power is similar to using the feat heighten spell quite often (when 2 PPs = +1 to DC as is the case for quite a few powers) while there's a proportionately larger gain for the above-mentioned classes by augmenting powers. Sure, they have less PPs, but that really is no issue in this contest. I'm gonna eat my hat if someone runs out of PPs. Except if it's an elan who can use tons of PPs to avoid damage.

The deep crystal is limited, agreed. But it costs... uh... nothing. Neither in gold, nor to use it (free action) - so why would someone not take it? An extra 2d6 damage sounds nifty. And I could see my lurk taking greater two weapon fighting and expanded knowledge for psionic lion's charge and attack 5 times wiht an extra 2d6 damage on each hit. And an extra 3d6 from psionic sneak attack. With the immense bonus to initiative, who's going to prevent this?
Unless... wait... you cannot take other actions in-between actions, right? So... one could only use two free actions to charge both weapons once, then charge and full attack? That would make much more sense in any case.
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Unread 29th of December, 2007, 03:50
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Not sure if you could do it in the middle of a full attack. Even if you could that would be 10 PPs, which is almost as much as a 6th level power, plus the cost of the Psionic Lion's Charge. Instead you could have just manifested Psionic Disintegrate and done 22d6 damage if they failed their save.
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