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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 04:16
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OOC (part 1) - And so it goes

This is the place for out of game chit chat. Welcome aboard everyone!

I suppose some rules discussions are in order. Personally, I was thinking along the lines of:
Core races only
PHB, Psi Handbook, DMG, The Mind's Eye (WOTC Official Psionics Section), and all WOTC Class books.

I don't care so much about starting level or gold - third level seems reasonable but I'm open for anything.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 04:52
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I like the inclusion of a few more books (be sure to check Errata's though) in this free form, since now my huge archive can be put to good use.

As for Creatures, i'd like to include the MM and the MM2, with a possibility of the Monsters of Faerun (if everyone agrees since its a FR based book). MM2 is excellent and has some new critters which would really change the old typical "orcs and goblins" and what not.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 05:08
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The Mind's Eye has some good stuff and deffinately improves on the PsiHB. However, I find that If Thoughts Could Kill really goes a long way towards balancing out the psion (though it does make a few mistakes). Of course, ITCK also seems to be geared towards campaigns/worlds where psionics is slightly more common than WOTC seems to like to assume, so others may not like that.

Starting level and gold make little diffrence to me. I usually create characters with all 20 levels in mind, so its just a question of how much I write into thier history.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 05:24
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Hmmm. I don't have ITCK and my understanding that allowing both ITCK and Mind's Eye is a bad idea. Maybe we could pick and choose what works from each and list the details here so anyone can use it.

A rule modification thread is probably a good idea; I'll put one up when we are closer to making some decisions.

Edit: As far as monster books, I'm pretty much wide open. We can post the stats of anything unusual in a monster thread so everyone knows what they are up against.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 05:44
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As for character creation, we don't want to go too high and make the game a joke (combat, skill, and abilities wise), and we don't want to go too low and make the game with very inexperienced characters (who die in a single hit, can't do a single thing right, and have very little history).

So I think between 3 and 5 is sufficient. Anything lower, and we're looking at some fairly "inexperienced" characters, anything higher and we're looking at some "too experienced" characters (in my eyes anyway).

We should also determine the nature of the world (magic and psionics wise) so everyone has a better understanding of the overall view before they create their characters.

As im not a big Psionics person, im going to leave that to people who know it. I own the PsiHB, but don't dabble in the arts of the mind as much as I should.

As for setting, I think we should go for a complete change, something new and freash - this is after all a completely different game.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 06:04
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New and different, eh? I have some ideas that I was going to use as a homebrew setting. It's a little off the beaten track, though, so I'll give the major setting info that I came up with and we can:

a) completely ignore it
b) use some of it
c) draw some inspiration from it

Keep in mind I'm just throwing ideas out, I'm not particularly attached to any of this.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 06:12
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I've not had a problem with allowing both.

The biggest change in ITCK is that psions get secondary disciplines. Basically three disciplines (primary and two secondary) get tied to one stat (determined by the primary). This allows the psion to cover for negative ability mods. I've not come across any interactions between this and Mind's Eye stuff, but maybe its because I'm not looking hard enough. Unless people are letting secondary disciplines qualify for feats which should only apply to the primary discipline their shouldn't be a problem (at least that I can see).

The next biggest change is the new powers discovered table. It gives the psion more powers and more power points than the PsiHB. This is a simple upgrade in power and since that seems to be the effect of many of the Mind's Eye stuff I can see where this might create a problem. In the end the psion gets 82 more PP, 1 more 0 and 9th level power, and 1 less 3rd, 4th, and 6th level power. I think its a fair trade (though not an even one), but others might not like it with the inclusion of Mind's Eye material (which seem to be dependant on high PP cost for balance).

The third major change is the power scaling variant. This definately interacts with the Mind's Eye feats Fortify Power and Overpower. Power scaling costs +1 PP/damage die while Fortify Power and Overpower have static costs (+2 PP and +6 PP respectively). Thus scaling is cheaper than feats until powers start to have alot of damage dice (about 4th level powers and up).

Anyway, when I bought ITCK I bought the pdf version (cheaper that way) so I can loan a copy to anyone who has questions.

As for monster books, I don't have the MM2 or Monsters of Faerun, but do have CC1 and CC2. I think we go with Gralhurk's suggestion and allow pretty much anything within reason for monster books since we can post unusual stats when necessary.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 06:35
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Okay, a long time ago there were two continents teeming with life. One was made up of humans, elves, dwarves, halfings and gnomes. The other held orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, kobolds, and trolls (though different trolls from your standard MM).

For ease of discussion we'll call them the light continent and the dark continent, I think you can guess which is which. At any rate, the light continent had some serious geographical problems that were threatening to rip the whole thing apart (volcanic, most likely). The elves, steeped in high magic, put together a series of magics that effectively prevent the disaster. As long as those magics are in place, everything is okay.

Needless to say, over the centuries, the elves begin to gradually decline and also eventually are unable to maintain those magics. With their land ultimately doomed, the light races emigrate to the dark continent. Most of the elves remain to die, unable to accept their failure - the proverbial captains going down with the ship.

So ends the first age.

The second age involves the light races warring for a place on the dark continent. This is further complicated by a magical backlash from the destruction of the light continent: magic simply no longer functions. At the time, the dark races live in a caste type society with the orcs on the top. They are architects and ingenious builders. I sort of envisioned an OA style of life for them - orcish monks and hobgoblin samauri.

The orcs are different than your standard MM orc - charismatic, intelligent. They have tall, strong builds with skin that ranges from grey to black and eyes that run from yellow to blue. Most males have no hair at all, though females typically do, ranging from silver to blue-black.

Anyway, the light races form a newer settlement area along a great inland sea not far from the coast. They succeed in winning a place to live. The dwarves, on the other hand, head for the mountains and exterminate nearly every single troll in existence - the only ones to actually compete for the same living space.

Tensions between the light and dark races are high, fighting is frequent, and curiously, certain races have begun to die off. It seems that the magical blackout has affected the inherently magical races (gnomes, elves, and kobolds). Cross breeding experiments have some success but those races are they were formerly known are gone, having mutated beyond recognition. This continues for hundreds of years.

Near the end of the second age magic returns, and a crazed elf is the first to discover it. Gathering tremendous power unto himself he assaults the entire dark continent, and every race on it. He assumes complete control for a few hundred years. During this time, the races forget their mutual gripes under the weight of this evil regime. Society declines, many orc secrets of building are lost, etc. Finally, a combined effort among the races produces an army and a small group of powerful heroes to depose the dictator.

So ends the second age.

The third age has been one of rebuilding, where the races have learned to co-exist and (by and large) forget old gripes. This process has continued for 200 years.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 06:39
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I hate the Reset, Button, its so close to the Submit button. I really do.

Gral: Lets not use your entire setting, but instead use Option C and possibly parts of Option B. Give us some general information about the setting (politics, religion, culture, social life, races, creatures, monsters, events of interest etc) and we could use that to build up an interesting basic frame which we can all work on later during the game,

Black: I don't understand a word you say, I believe i'll leave the Psionic stuff to you.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 06:50
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Now, for the game mechanic stuff.

It basically allows for the source material I listed previously but also allows OA stuff. It might be too much.

Races are a pretty big change. Here is what I had:
Rukh (pureblood orc) +2wis/-2int, favored class monk, low light vision, some other bonuses
Carn (declining orc): Per PHB half-orc
Low Orc (mutated orc): Per MM orc
Human: Per PHB
Hobgoblin: Per MM
Halflings: Per PHB
Goblins: Per MM
Dwarves: Per PHB
Vasser: Kind of a combo between halflings and gnomes. Small sized, -2str/+2int/+2chr, low light vision, favored class bard
Mwellret: Kind of a combo between kobold and goblin. Medium sized, -2int/+2chr, Darkvision, +2 bluff/diplomacy/intimidate, light sensitivity, cast obscuring mist/suggestion once per day (ECL +1)
Thune: Twisted ones - essentially the disfigured remnants of the elven race. As elves, but favored class rogue and stat modifiers of +2dex/+2int/-2con/-2chr.

Again, most of this stuff was kind of just rolling around in my head - nothing was really definite. It's probably too much new stuff to add here but there might be a few ideas worth salvaging.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 06:54
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Cad, I'll give some other details later (I'm all typed out right now ). Again, these are just ideas I had for a homebrew, not necessarily stuff that I want to do here.

We're just kicking ideas around so everyone just speak your mind and contribute anything you think might be of interest.

As far as the psi stuff goes, I'll have to think about it. I'm not as well versed as BP, but I get the general idea.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 07:07
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One other thing I did want to mention (because I really kind of like it) is planar ties. I had sort of envisioned close ties from this prime to the planes of fire and shadow. The old orc fortresses (huge, thick, stone structures) each would have a central, secret hearth with a tie to the plane of fire - kind of like the heart of the castle.

The orcs hold great respect for the dwarves for their metalworking ability (I figured that would tie in nicely with katana construction).
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 07:15
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I like the oriental spin, and the different racial uniqueness is cool.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 07:47
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Okay I'm in, and I'm throwing my weight behind lever 4 character starting.

I do have a problem with the cross bredding, but that is just me being fussy. I very much doubt the races are geneticly close enough to actuly cross-breed, and without magic how did they come about?

Then again, I'm just being picky
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 09:10
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Is this game open to anyone already in eidolon? If it is, I am in...level 4 dosen't sound to bad.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 09:21
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I believe Gral has said that for now its an invitation only Free Form, (with 6 people total so far I believe.) so we'll just have to sit and see how things go and maybe Gral will contact a few more people.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 09:39
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Ok then, fair enough.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 09:40
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Hmm, hmm, hmm. It's a shame I have to give up poor Cadrius. Nothing beats a melodramatic fallen paladin.

However the oriental spin is making the gears turn in my head. I've got this native american, shamanistic- styled orcish monk concept floating throughout my consciousness...maybe I'll work with that.

As far as optional sources go, well, I don't really know. I don't own the MM2 or any of the psi supplements (but I'm always quite leery of 3rd party products). So I'll have to trust other's opinions.

Also and maybe I missed one of the forty posts in this thread, but we should probably discuss how we want this game run. Eidolon always worked for me. We worked with our own interests while trying to contribute toward the central story. That's fine, but I'm curious as to people's stances on the sheer mechanics of the game. Me? I'm very much into a "dice-less" sort of game and that's been pretty evident in Eidolon. If I'm telling a story, I'll decide how luck works, but maybe that's just me. Naturally it requirse a bit of maturity to be reasonable and logical (Cadrius taking severe beatings is proof of this).

Conversely, I don't have a problem with people going strictly by the rules. I just wanted everyone to know that in a freeform I'm not fond of that route.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 09:46
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No, we haven't discussed mechanics yet. We have been working on enviroment and rule set.

I'd comment more but I have to get back to grading labs.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 10:31
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I'm goign to dig up my list of character ideas.

But having the world mapped out is generalty a bad idea, as is too much talking before a free form started
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 10:48
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Yes but I think there should be some sort of a theme. Sort of how the other Free Form has a low magic feel.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 11:33
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We need cration rules
a basic theme (low magic. oriental, etc)
A place to start ( a bar, road, hole in the ground)
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 14:00
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I like Gral's setting so I'm going to make a large assumption and say that the rest of you at least like elements of it, if not willing to use it directly.

Based one what I've read I'd say it's about an average magic setting. Magic's been around for a while, but I imagine it's only been freely usable by all for the past couple hundred years. So that might put it on the lower end of the middle but still above the "magic bad!" stage of Eidolon.

I like the oriental bend as well as the twist on orcs. However, if we want to include OA we need to decide how much will be involved.

As far as a place to start I figure one town/city/region is close enough to keep things plausible. Maybe once we work characters out some people could devise backgrounds or reasons they might begin together.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 22:54
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Sponk: Sorry, but for the moment I want to keep this fairly small. Once we get going some more spots might open up.

Itches: I very much doubt the races are geneticly close enough to actuly cross-breed, and without magic how did they come about?
Alcohol?

Okay, how about psionics?

Anyway, let me be a little more clear. I didn't present that setting as the setting for this game, or even as a starting point for this game.

I wanted a little brainstorming session, and I figured it would work as a catalyst if I went first. I don't give a crap about the specifics we decide on (not that we need to decide on specifics) but a general direction is fairly important.

Now, about the what I wrote.

I dislike:
1) That it is so far from the standard setting
2) I'm not sure I like having no real elves around. I was feeling anti-elf when I came up with this so they got to ruin the world and end up as homeless gypsies.
3) All those new races

I like:
1) The idea of goblinoid races having real cultures of their own and being "on-par" with the standard PHB races in terms of alignment and intelligence.
2) That there is an area suitable for OA material - I don't think it needs to be the focus area of the campaign, but it's nice that it's out there.
3) The Mwellret. It's blatantly ripped off from one of those Terry Brooks novels, but I think they are pretty darn cool. Maybe not as PC's, but certainly as an intelligent race.
4) Connections to the planes of Fire and Shadow. Maybe I've watched the Bridge at Khazad-Dum scene too many times, though.

Again, the specifics I put down aren't important. I just wanted to use it as something to start people's creative ideas going.

There are two things I'd like to see from everyone. First, some ideas about a setting that YOU would like to play in. Second, a quick list of what you like or don't like about the other ideas.

What I'm hoping is that we can put together some general concepts we'll use in the setting. We can develop specifics in game. So, it's brainstorming. Throw out any ideas you have, no matter how unsure you are they will work here. We're not necessarily going to set anything in stone, but I think it will help us get a good general feeling for the setting we want to develop.
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Unread 23rd of April, 2003, 23:34
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No problem, crosses fingers.
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