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  #76  
Unread 24th of February, 2007, 05:03
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The answer to all your questions is no, but generally yes. There are few if any absolutes, and in social constructs this becomes apparent immediately. People will abuse the system. People will project bias. You cannot change this.

In response to MFG, there are no "facts" in human experience, so I don't think the term is appropriate. We cannot be objective, as objectivity is a constructed ideal.

That said, while this proposal isn't the best I've ever heard, it cannot hurt to attempt it.
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  #77  
Unread 24th of February, 2007, 05:30
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And who gets to do that sort of thing, especially if it sounds like "work" and of a type that may get them a lot of criticism of their own, for either being harsh or soft, or not objective, or...Yeah.

So far I'm not seeing a good solution that'd fit the community, mainly due to the vagaries of internet comms in the first place. It's either going to end up terribly subjective, a lot of work no one'll want to keep up on, or both. If someone wants to get an idea of an established GM or player's "cred" then they can glance through their post history themselves, ask some other established folks, or take a chance--which is what everyone has to do with unknown newbies who find the site and want to play in or run a game anyway.
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  #78  
Unread 24th of February, 2007, 07:31
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Originally Posted by LynMars If someone wants to get an idea of an established GM or player's "cred" then they can glance through their post history themselves, ask some other established folks, or take a chance--which is what everyone has to do with unknown newbies who find the site and want to play in or run a game anyway.
You are absolutely correct - any kind of rating system is useless when dealing with newbies - and let's face it, those are the folks you'd really like to know something about. For more established people you can do some homework and get an idea of their style.

My earlier suggestion (Player/DM card) was essentially intended to be that homework already out there for people to look at. I don't know how feasible it is, but I do think it should stick to relatively objective information (number of games, lifespan of games, posting frequency) and stay away from more subjective things (like, say, a rating or comment on how good a Player/DM you are).
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  #79  
Unread 24th of February, 2007, 09:13
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Feel free to ask around about the success of my games would be a good start IMHO, but that covers only the GM side.
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  #80  
Unread 1st of March, 2007, 10:39
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Any progress on this topic? This is worth pursuing and should not die in the larva stage.........
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  #81  
Unread 1st of March, 2007, 10:46
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I think it's on the To Do list, LeeCHeSSS is only one man and can only do so many things at a time.
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  #82  
Unread 1st of March, 2007, 10:47
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Okay, can we help in any way?
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  #83  
Unread 1st of March, 2007, 10:50
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An undead title would help You'll have to ask LeeCHeSSS about that one, I'm just the pretty face of Team Admin.
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  #84  
Unread 1st of March, 2007, 10:57
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Done, just saw that thread.....
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  #85  
Unread 1st of March, 2007, 19:20
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Originally Posted by My Fellow Gamers # Any progress on this topic? This is worth pursuing and should not die in the larva stage.........
This thread is just the latest little flurry of activity on this particular issue. Feel free to suggest ideas in the meantime though.
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  #86  
Unread 2nd of March, 2007, 04:31
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Read my posts if you want to know what you can do. I already said that if there are enough objective criteria (which you could think about), I can implement a GM/Player-card.
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  #87  
Unread 2nd of March, 2007, 04:45
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If only humans had the ability to be objective...
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  #88  
Unread 2nd of March, 2007, 05:17
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Humans can still point out objective criteria. The original list seemed to sum up what players needed to know the most. The 5 "best" posts thing really isn't the best idea, but maybe something along the lines of the ability to link a single post to showcase writing style would be adequate.
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  #89  
Unread 2nd of March, 2007, 06:45
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Objective Criteria:
Longest IC post (link)
Number of IC posts
Frequency of IC posts
Number of OOC posts
Frequency of OOC posts
Current number of active games

Seperate statistics for each member as a player and as a GM

Note: These statistics would require flagging each thread as IC, OOC, or neither (Character Sheets, etc.). This would probably mean a significant amount of work to bring existing threads up-to standards, but could probably be included as a required selection for the creation of new threads. Also, some forums (like Uncognative Cackling) should automatically be neither.
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  #90  
Unread 2nd of March, 2007, 07:49
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These "objective criteria" are merely quantitative, they have nothing to do with quality, and are merely useful in drawing correlations. A peer review system is a social construct, and cannot be objective or measure objective data. You need to understand this before putting it into effect.
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  #91  
Unread 2nd of March, 2007, 07:52
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From a programming standpoint, Longest IC post is about the best you could go with. I'd rather see something like this instead:

The 5 "best" posts thing really isn't the best idea, but maybe something along the lines of the ability to link a single post to showcase writing style would be adequate.
I arbitrarily picked 5, but the idea is to allow the user to link to a few posts (or one post) that they feel best represents them. Certainly it isn't an objective measure, but since only the user can actually do the linking I don't see it as an issue. If you want to sabotage yourself by linking to crappy posts then more power to you.
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  #92  
Unread 2nd of March, 2007, 09:26
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Originally Posted by nightinverse # These "objective criteria" are merely quantitative, they have nothing to do with quality, and are merely useful in drawing correlations. A peer review system is a social construct, and cannot be objective or measure objective data. You need to understand this before putting it into effect.
Everyone understands that a peer review system is a social construct. I think everyone here is half way intelligent.

And "merely" providing people information isn't a bad thing. It may not make the biggest difference in the world but it would be nice to see the reliability and some statistics of the person's posting habits.

No one is saying this is an end-all be-all like you seem to be insinuating with your doomsday-esque predictions. It's a tool to help people determine the quality gamer/GM that person may or may not be, which I believe the system would do just fine.
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  #93  
Unread 2nd of March, 2007, 11:29
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At the moment, everybody is given the choice to do their own research or move blindly. I believe this is preferable to a poorly operationalized system which will provide users with unqualified and unreliable data which can be skewed by other factors, yet will seem to many as a good indicator of their ability or reliability.

We already have a poorly operationalized measure known as post count. I do not which to introduce another which is more susceptible to manipulation, unless everybody here understands what precisely it is, in which case, nobody would logically use it anyway.
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  #94  
Unread 2nd of March, 2007, 12:25
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Anyway, I'm not going to try to stand in the way of this idea. It doesn't hurt to experiment, I simply want everybody to know that this may not be able to do what it is intended to do.
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  #95  
Unread 2nd of March, 2007, 15:36
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I was the one willing to keep reputation, what does that make me?
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  #96  
Unread 2nd of March, 2007, 16:45
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I say we have a player of the week poll. Make a system that randomly selects a member (who has logged in within the past x days) and there is a rating scale of 1-5.

Eventually, there will be a poll for pretty much everyone who actually frequents the site and that could be a basis for "member rating".

Its not perfect, but its fun. Of course, it would take forever.

In addition, I really love Gral's idea.

I have actually been wondering if there was a system like this since I first joined. I had to actually know people from other sites to get into my first two games (one of which bombed due to an AWOL Gm), and I've had one player dissapear from the one game I run (as well as people advise me against letting another player in).

Maybe a thread in which users can query about other users (of course I am being altruistic enough to assume that people would be mature in such a thread).
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  #97  
Unread 12th of March, 2007, 14:46
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Getting into the discussion a bit late, but:

Originally Posted by Gralhruk # I arbitrarily picked 5, but the idea is to allow the user to link to a few posts (or one post) that they feel best represents them. Certainly it isn't an objective measure, but since only the user can actually do the linking I don't see it as an issue. If you want to sabotage yourself by linking to crappy posts then more power to you.
What if we had a thread in which everyone posts exactly once, and each user links to their post in their signature? Essentially, each post would be an extension of the user's signature, like what I have in my signature right now. Then in that post, one could post links to their best posts/games/other creations and anything else they wanted to. This would allow people complete freedom as to what and how much they want to showcase, while not producing much more additional clutter. We'd have everyone's self-styled best stuff all in one thread. Perhaps best of all, LeeCHeSSS wouldn't have to program anything extra.
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  #98  
Unread 12th of March, 2007, 14:49
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Why not just link to that post in the game...? Perhaps I'm confused but what is the purpose of an entirely new thread?
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  #99  
Unread 12th of March, 2007, 14:54
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Depending on how many links one wishes to have, putting them all in the signature might clutter up the boards in general. Also, having all the links in one thread creates a sort of centralized Hall of Fame where one can easily find what every user considers to be their best work.

Plus it might cut down on people quoting themselves in The PBP quote thread, which I consider bad form.
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Last edited by The Hive Custodian; 12th of March, 2007 at 14:59.
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  #100  
Unread 12th of March, 2007, 14:58
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THC also has a working prototype linked in his signature.
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