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  #51  
Unread 13th of August, 2005, 17:28
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heh. Mostly, 's because of a combination of not looking for it, lack of the D20 modern book, and my reluctance to gen a character.

Although if you'd have me, I'd love to join...

If you'd like to bring the book and a character sheet tomorrow, I'd have no problem with genning a good gun-nut.
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  #52  
Unread 14th of August, 2005, 01:12
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Originally Posted by Daedalus the funny thing is, generally, a gun designed to fire box mags will generally chew through the rounds about as fast as a gun designed to fire clip mags.
Mmmmm.... Toasty. ....um, toastier?
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  #53  
Unread 14th of August, 2005, 03:03
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Daedalus: Actually, I don't think any of have the D20 Modern book. We're all using the MSRD found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/msrd.
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  #54  
Unread 14th of August, 2005, 05:42
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Yar, and you can join when you're done, I'll just need to intro you in some way.
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  #55  
Unread 14th of August, 2005, 06:44
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I used the SRD and scratch-built my character sheet in a way that made the most sense to me. Using notepad.
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Unread 14th of August, 2005, 07:03
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I use Word, myself. Formatting doesn't stick, but oh well.
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  #57  
Unread 16th of August, 2005, 15:59
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But back to what this forum was built for.

Guns.

Luger P-08
Originally built for German soldiers in WWI, the Luger is a pistol with a well-known and bloody noteriety, most of which is completely deserved by this pistol, the first handgun to fire 9mm rounds.

Small handgun, semiautomatic, 8+1 clip magazine, range 30 ft., Unrestricted, 2d6 damage. Purchase DC: 15

(Daed's pointless gun tip of the day: under clip, one may notice that I listed 8+1. now, why shouldn't I say 9? Simple. the +1 refers to the fact that this gun can hold a round chambered, meaning that while the clip can only hold 8 bullets, the gun can hold one of its own. Therefore, those going into combat may load a clip, cock the pistol, then unload the clip, and reloading it to capacity, allowing one more shot than normal. This feature has been useful to many a soldier who, while reloading, was attacked by the enemy. They were able to get that last shot off with the enemy completely unaware, as the clip was out of the gun when the trigger was pulled.)
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  #58  
Unread 18th of August, 2005, 05:03
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I just came across this gun and thought it was awesome.

Medusa Model 47
A lovely six-shot revolver, the medusa carries 9 rifling grooves, istead of the normal 7 for revolvers, making it extremely accurate. But that's not why it's such a great gun. The Medusa has a specially designed cylinder that can fire any caliber round up to .357. That's right. Everything from .18 derringer, to 9mm NATO, all the way up to .357 magnum, this gun can shoot them all, interchangeably.

Stats: Damage 2d6, small, rng. 30ft, 2lbs., six shot cylinder, +1 attack, semiautomatic, purchase DC: 18
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  #59  
Unread 18th of August, 2005, 05:09
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I'll add that in a second.
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  #60  
Unread 27th of October, 2005, 11:26
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Lightbulb

(Okay, I just saw these things on the History channel. I didn't catch the official name, but
the police have been tinkering with them. since this is near future and we've got engineers
working on cutting-art, state-of-the-edge technology, it isn't very far-fetched at all)

Compressed Air Rifle:
The first prototype designed by an aircraft ejection-seat company (it's true!), this adaptable weapon uses compressed air to propell the bullet instead of gunpowder. The addition of a range-finder and a small number of microchips allows the weapon to fire the slug with just the right force to hurt but not risk lethality, though this option could concievably be disabled by monkeying with the gun at the risk of ruining it.

Large longarm
2d8 dmg
60ft Rng
8lbs
6 Internal Magazine
Licenced Use
Purchase DC 19?
This weapon deals subdual damage, though will deal lethal damage if it scores a critical hit (oops.)
This weapon is quiet and flashless, thus counts as having a surpressor.
This weapon grants +1 bonus to hit.
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  #61  
Unread 27th of October, 2005, 15:49
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I once fired one of those. It was a rifle brought down to a rifle range I was shooting at by this guy who worked down at Lockheed. He was giving everyone at the range a chance to shoot it.

I gotta tell you, these things are really great. Don't believe that nonsense about non-lethality; the rifle I shot flashlessly, soundlessly, accurately, and recoilessly shot a 2.5 MM pellet with the force of a .38 rifle round.

The only drawbacks to this thing are its limited range and low air capacity. The rifle the man at the range had could fire about fifty times before it needed to be repressurized by a CO2 tank he had in his backyard. And the max range is about 120 feet, give or take.

But this gun could very easily be made into an assassin's weapon: Simply change the parts to plastic or wood instead of metal, retrofit it to make an easily assembled breakaway gun, and carry around a pocketfull of pellets. Which are aluminum, about the size of a dime, except a little thinner.

Oh, but DS, you're wrong about the internal magazine, unless you're talking about AirSoft guns, which wouldn't hurt a fly. Compressed Air Rifles have thusfar all been bolt-action single-shot guns, as the build of the pellet demands that.
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  #62  
Unread 27th of October, 2005, 16:25
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I used internal magazine to represent having to replace the air tank. One could concievably have a magazine that drops a pellet in, then closes, probably using a bolt-action-like motion. Or something. I don't know how modern guns work.
I can easily describe how a musket works, though.
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  #63  
Unread 27th of October, 2005, 16:46
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The way that clips work is as follows, at least in most guns: You manually load the weapon by pulling back on the slide, unblocking the chamber and allowing the spring-loaded clip to load the first round, storing it in the chamber. For a recoil action pistol, when the gun is fired, it uses the kinetic energy of the backblast (or recoil) to pull back the slide, ejecting the spent brass casing through a cut notch in the side and accepting a new round in its place.

Pretty simple, really. Just a matter of two springs and some kinetics.
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  #64  
Unread 27th of October, 2005, 16:51
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Ah. So you think a box would be more appropriate? It seems it doesn't use a tank, so how does it keep the compressed air, anyway?
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Unread 28th of October, 2005, 08:25
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Mythbusters made an effective umbrella gun of this sort.
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Unread 28th of October, 2005, 08:28
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I don't know about an umbrella gun, but I want one of those umbrella helicopters, like the Penguin had in that batman movie? That guy had so many cool umbrellas.
Originally Posted by The Penguin D**n... I grabbed the cute one...
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Unread 28th of October, 2005, 08:47
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It made the cut, the lethal version. Now, for the non-lethal!
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Unread 28th of October, 2005, 08:56
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I'd have though it having negligable kick-back would grant +1 to hit.. never mind. I'm just happy enough to have it. I am totally aplying for a licence and buying one of these when we get past the Factory Fame.
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Unread 28th of October, 2005, 08:57
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All of the titles will be interesting, I promise.
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Unread 28th of October, 2005, 14:04
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The tank is built integrated into the body of the gun itself, just below the barrel. It's safe there, because the shots give off little to no heat. The gun itself looks exactly like a bolt-action hunting rifle.
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  #71  
Unread 16th of November, 2005, 10:07
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I figured that since Im going to be in this game, I'd pose a mechanical question dealing with the d20 system and it's treatment of bladed weaponry in a modern setting.

Knives kill far more effectively then guns firing standard munitions. I state the latter part of that sentence so folks don't shove AP and hollow point rounds down my throat.

Anyway, I find it incredibly illogical that a 6-8 inch serrated combat knife only does d6 damage. That, to put it crudely, is bullshit. A well placed shot from a firearm, or more rarely a random shot, can do severe damage to internal organs. A random slash from a knife can damage several organs, rip blood vessels and major arteries apart, cause more damage to the epidermis, and hurt a lot more than a bullet from a gun. I am, of course, leaving automatic weaponry and non-standard munitions out of the equation at this time.


Now I understand that it is a melee weapon and they have to take into account the fact that the man with the .38 special can put two to three rounds into a melee combatant before he can even close a ten foot distance.


To me, that does not translate to a decrease in damage. Knives should deal a good deal more than 1 to 6 points of damage, adjusted for strength, but I have no idea how to implement this.


My first suggestion would be to just up the damage of knives a die step and leave it at that. The difficulty in approaching an opponent armed with a ballistic ranged weapon would still reflect the reduced effectiveness of the gun.


My latter suggestion would be to implement a rule found in the new Serenity game dealing with guns to the head, knives to the throat, and other one hit kills.

Simply put, no attack roll is needed, the damage is automatically critical, and a fortitude save must be made to remain standing and aware. This is similar to a coup de grace, but a bit more realistic.

As I finished this post, I realize that it may not be appropriate for this particular thread. I will go hunt for a rules thread now.


And before anyone questions my credibility, I have fired every manner of firearm from the six shooters of old to todays modern automatic weaponry. I have trained in knife fighting, kendo, and martial arts. I've been shot too. Long story. The getting shot didn't hurt nearly as much as the knife used to dig out the bullet. Hell, even the needle work hurt more.

EDIT: Curse word and it's horrible formatting.

Last edited by stealthbanana; 16th of November, 2005 at 10:09.
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  #72  
Unread 16th of November, 2005, 10:40
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First off, speaking in pure mechanics here, 1d6 damage is reserved for blades a foot of more in length, such as a short sword. Second, while a slash can cause a great deal of bleeding, this doesn't instantly kill your opponent. A good stabbing or piercing blow can cause system shocks and all that nastiness.
Thirdly, the most vicious damage I have ever seen in d20 modern (not counting running someone over with a Dodge Neon) was with a melee weapon. A katana to be percise. A two-handed chop and a bit of power attack does horriffic damage. Seriously, this thing was doing about the same average damage as a light .50 sniper rifle being used one-handed by a strength-heavy character.
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Unread 16th of November, 2005, 11:33
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I agree with SB.
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  #74  
Unread 16th of November, 2005, 14:24
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Okay, let me address this.

This became the correct thread, for here the d6 knife died once at my hands.

In this case, neither Takkaryx nor I are objective, however, I have the luxury of being GM while he is not. That said, I am, once again, taking his opinion under advisement.

I have lesser personal knowledge of guns and bladed weapons, though I do have some. I have successfully missed a target at 10 yards and shot out the wire holding it. I have also successfully suffered puncture and slashing wounds, so I can see where SB is coming from on purely that.

I would argue the issue of bone structure, except that my case is specific. The gun will always be more effective than the knife in an attack to the chest because a slug can penetrate bone, and a slash requires a lot more luck to do so. It just so happens that a number of the major organs are in the upper torso, however, he is right, it makes little sense. You will die from a slash across the kidneys, more surely than a shot through the lung. However, both examples fall apart when you encounter a shot from the side which punctures all tissue in a line, possibly severing the spinal column. I'm sure none of us have suffered such damage.

We are talking about slashing versus piercing. THC and I had a discussion about this in '00, where we came to a conclusion that bludgeoning trumps all and left it at that.

It's time to resolve this.

Piercing wounds: Difficult healing, varied infection rates, lesser direct damage.
Slashing wounds: Simple healing, lower infection rate based on depth, greater direct damage.
Bludgeoning wounds: Simple healing, very low infection rate, greatest direct damage.

It's my job to define how each form acts.

I may consider the die-type raise, providing I can get a majority from the remaining players; that is to say:

DS
DSB
S_L
THC
Daed
SD

If one doesn't reply in a day, his vote is forfeit and the pool gets smaller. In a tie, I'll grant it in view of Takk and SB's votes.

As far as I can see, the revised coup de grace is perfect. I'll implement it as soon as I'm done doing my rounds.
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Last edited by nightinverse; 16th of November, 2005 at 14:36.
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  #75  
Unread 16th of November, 2005, 15:54
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Okay, after my computer nearly exploding on me, let's try this again:

Originally Posted by nightinverse We are talking about slashing versus piercing. THC and I had a discussion about this in '00, where we came to a conclusion that bludgeoning trumps all and left it at that.
I honestly don't remember that conversation. However, I believe

Originally Posted by Doomsmile running someone over with a Dodge Neon
would count as bludgeoning.

As for the greater debate at hand:

I can't honestly say I have experience (from either end) in any weapon deadlier than a pillow. As much as a few of you may consider me the deadliest man with a pillow among the residents of a certain room, I don't think that really has much relevence here.

What I do have, though is the MSRD. In ArcanaEquipment.rtf, nearly all of the melee weapons were essentially copied verbatim from Dungeons and Dragons. (Incidentally, this is also the file where special ammunition types can be found. It would seem that they would categorize the effects of hollow point bullets under frangibles, according to Wikipedia.) Most of the weapons in plain 'ol msrdequipmentweaponsandarmor.rtf are the same as well. Except:

Katana does 2d6 instead of the 1d10 it does in D&D.
Three-section staff does 1d10/1d10 instead of 1d8/1d8 for a comparable D&D weapon.

So, it would seem that there is some precedent for increasing the die type of weapons from their archaic counterparts. Is this due to materials, or the value of a hit point in each game? I can't claim to know, but the precedent is there. And why penalize a melee character if they don't want to use a katana or a three-section staff?

Therefore, solution:

Promote all melee weapon dice by one die type, except the chainsaw (how the hell do you wield a chainsaw effectively?), katana, and three-section staff, which already got their dice promoted.

Promotion series:
1
1d2
1d3
1d4
1d6
1d8 or 2d4
1d10
1d12 or 2d6
2d8
1d20 or 2d10 or 3d6 or 4d4
2d12 or 3d8 or 4d6 or 5d4
4d8 or 5d6 or 7d4
2d20 or 4d10 or 6d6 or 8d4
4d12 or 6d8 or 8d6 or 10d4
8d8 or 10d6 or 14d4

Bold dice have a slightly higher (but I wouldn't say overpoweringly so) average than the rest.

Now this gives me an idea... melee weapon design rules.

Originally Posted by stealthbanana My latter suggestion would be to implement a rule found in the new Serenity game dealing with guns to the head, knives to the throat, and other one hit kills.

Simply put, no attack roll is needed, the damage is automatically critical, and a fortitude save must be made to remain standing and aware. This is similar to a coup de grace, but a bit more realistic.
Could you clarify this? In what situations, exactly, would this take place?
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