Playing to Epic

[SlagMortar]

itchy edit: I felt that other thread (http://online-roleplaying.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7304) was drifting sufficiently off topic to move some of the posts to their own thread.

Congratulations on keeping a character and a campaign going that long. The DM's I play with (myself included) usually start running dry on ideas after 6 or 7 levels. Actually in my adventures it seems like the players always end up separated and have gotten themselves in a heap of trouble :nervous: . I don't think I've ever played a full 1 to 20 character.

[nightinverse]

I only played a 1 to Epic once... and that was horrid. Good work, on that note.

[elmer_jok]

I haven't 'played' a character up to epic levels, but I have DM'd a group up to that point. It gets really hard to challenge characters at the epic levels because of all the backup plans and contingiencies (spelled wrong I know) they seem to have. Went from 2nd level to 21-22nd level in just over 3 years. We played regularily, once or twice a week, for most of that time, and took about a six month break when they were around 7-8th level. One thing in particular that I found challenging as a DM of such a heroic group was keeping each adventure carefully balanced in regards to challenge vs. reward ratio. My 'Into the Wilds' adventure is inspired by that same campaign, kind of taking off where they left off, albeit starting at 3rd level and going on from there. Everything the players of that game are seeing in that world are direct results of what those epic characters did in their careers. Yes, there is somebody to blame for that war that's raging on all around you at the moment. If you'd like I'll tell my players any of your grievances.

[LeadPal]

My two longest stints as a DM were in one campaign that went up from 1 to 26, and another that went from 1 to 15 (although in both I gave out a lot of roleplaying and story awards, especially in the first case). They were both huge successes, a lot of which is owing to my fantastic players.

I've never actually played a character for more than about 2 levels, however. Almost all of my face to face 3rd edition experience is in DMing, and, well, we all know how slow PbP can be.

[omni-roach]

I've always wanted to play to epic, especially because of all the unbridled power given to higher levels in general, it seems as if the closest I've ever gotten to as a player is 1-7 or 8-ish.

[nightinverse]

On a related note...

Epic is somewhat overrated. Due to inherent issues in most D&D games, anything that might have felt Epic is either old hat, or feels absurd. GMing an Epic campaign is an undertaking I would not attempt again lightly, and not to cause offense, but there are less than a dozen people I have met who could run a good one.

[LynMars]

By the time one gets into double digit levels, d20 starts to break down. It's subtle at first, but the power curve alters, and the party is suddenly a lot cooler. At epic levels, it's absolutely ridiculous. I've done it once, in a game where the GM wanted to test all elvels of the game, and it was a fun game, but we all agreed we wouldn't go that high again; there's almost no point, and it gets really hard to tell a good story and keep challenges up for the party. And I dreaded levelling and recalculating everything. I didn't mean to break my character, and it happened anyway.

[nightinverse]

I had a partial edit to the Epic Level Handbook written a while ago - gave up on the project due to the absurd amount of work left to be done. The power gaps grow wider, the middle classes fall into the lower category... it gets nasty.

[LeadPal]

Yeah, I agree with the balance issues. Once the 1-26 game reached level 22, it became immediately obvious that things couldn't last. So the last 4 levels were mostly roleplaying to tie up loose ends, with only occasional and brief combat. It was still worth playing, though.

[omni-roach]

It seems as if balance would become an issue after a while. I can't think of too many things that could possibly be a worthy match for an epic character without being worked on some way or another.

[Skidrow]

I think that my problem with epic is the fact that there isn't enough epic monsters, which causes you to give regular monsters class levels or more hit die. I don't think it's entertaining to fight the same type of creatures over and over (unless its kobolds:D), even if they are stronger. It gets boring.

[LeadPal]

I wouldn't say that, myself. You can get far by making up wacky descriptions that fit the mechanics of existing monsters, and class levels can add a wackiness all their own. I still think the problem is one of balance... most of the epic monsters are ridiculous, usually being far too easy to kill but way too deadly.

Aside from tailoring everything to the party, there's really no way around this.

[Linklegacy77]

Epic battles are either A) a ridiculously easy win for the PC's, or B) a TPK, but almost never in between. That's because it's almost impossible to judge the PC's strength accurately at those levels because of the ridiculous amounts of resources available. I actually had an epic assassin once who had a +132 to hide, a +102 to balance (walking on clouds!), and other ridiculously high skills. Epic spellcasting becomes ridiculous as well. The challenge rating system also has broken down by this point, and the game balance no longer exists.

[-J-]

When the epic level book first came out for 3ed I wanted to run a game that went from 1st level to epic. So we started this FR game, their characters went from 1st to about 14th level. So at the end of this year and a half long plot arc I inform them that they have just completed the prelude, and the real adventure was about to begin. That didn't go over so well...