E3

[BigRedRod]

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1016/180pxelectronicentertainmentex.png

I'm kind of curious as to the reactions of the less hardcore gaming nerd types about the various results of this year's E3.

PS3
So far we've seen that the PS3 is going to be insanely expensive but with some pretty games and a pad that can sense its own rotation.
http://playstation.about.com/library/graphics/ps3colors.jpg
http://imageshack.us/
Plus they have a good catalogue of developers who are signed up to make games (leading to a non-launch line up including FFXIII, Devil May Cry 4 and Metal Gear Solid 4)

Wii
The wii still has a silly name and is another DS style "sounds stupid but could end up being great" venture.
http://www.cdrinfo.com/images/uploaded/Nintendo_Revolution3.jpg
http://wii.nintendo.com/images/controller_features2.png
Then again, I'm hearing a rumour that Lucasarts are debating a lightsaber game.

Despite all the sounds of joy about this that I'm hearing, most reports about the demos have been very underwhelming. Then again this was also true of the DS back when they just wanted to show off all of the various functions rather than convince people there would be fun games.

Xbox 360
And Microsoft just stand around shrugging, wishing they had something say aside from "Seriously, we'll have a decent game library out for the 360 as soon as we can, honest." Essentially they were all about the games, but sadly nothing really managed to jump out at me. They should be on track by Novemeber though, or at least you'd hope so.

PC
http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Ejoshhull/fallout3.jpg
I'd forgotten that Bethesda had picked up the rights to it. I can think of worse people to be attempting to make it, I just hope they don't drop the ball.

And anybody who got all excited at news of the Shadowrun game is likely to be very dissapointed. Rather than the original snes/megadrive games its an FPS. And not the cool Deus Ex kind, but a team based counterstrike clone in a vaguely shadowrun setting.

And SAM AND MAX! (http://www.telltalegames.com/samandmax)

[nightinverse]

You may not want to hear about my opinion, as I am a hardcore gaming nerd... just a retro one.

Nintendo has never disappointed me in hardware, though sometimes it misses the mark on software... like Mario derivative games. Sony and Microsoft... I expected no more of them.

Now, I never got to play either Fallout, but they are on my list so...

The SNES/Genesis Shadowrun was unlikely to be repeated. I need to get another copy of that one, having lost mine in a bet of sorts... anyway, the news about the new one is disappointing.

[BrianL03]

FALLOUT 3

O_O

*dies from the joy*

Just please don't suck... just please don't suck. Who wants to help me revive Black Isle?

[Linklegacy77]

I DO! PICK ME! REVIVE BLACK ISLE!? WHAT A NOBLE GOAL!

On Topic, We've had similar threads over at 3ebb about the Nintendo Wii and the PS3. The Wii is looking like it's going to have tons of neat features. And if you've seen red steel, you'll know the swordsmanship thing actually works. Watching Metroid Prime on the Wii was amazing, utterly amazing. And the new Zelda game looks pretty good, although I think I'd rather play that on the GC.

[Aavarius]

Black Isle? I'm not so sure that's worth having around again. I mean, granted they made some incredible games, but many of the Black Isle folks are now working with the newer independent (yet strangely affiliated) Obsidian development team and are doing killer work. Black Isle used to be a part of BioWare (I'll save ya'll the anguish of hearing my opinion of BioWare), but after the BioWare/Black Isle split and the subsequent Black Isle death/Obsidian birth, BioWare's been getting beat by its former emplyees as far as quality of product goes.

Look at KOTOR. KOTOR was a great game, but when Obsidian got a hold of the source code and all the other developer goodies from BioWare, we got the fantastic KOTOR II sequal. The same seems to be the case with Neverwinter Nights, though time will tell if Obsidian does as well as they did with KOTOR II. The thing is (as I'm a hardcore NWN player) I've seen little to nothing relesed for NWN II that doesn't make me anticipate its relese more and more each day.

Now, don't get me wrong. I love me some Planescape: Torment, and Baldur's Gate series, but resurrecting Black Isle? I'll pay a cleric to cast cure spells on Obsidian before I pay for a Raise Dead on Black Isle. To me, it seems Obsidian has everything that was great about Black Isle rolled on top of everything good that Obsidian is making a name for itself with.

[nightinverse]

I didn't like KOTOR II as much as KOTOR, myself.

Thanks for adding the pictures, BRR.

[BigRedRod]

And if you've seen red steel, you'll know the swordsmanship thing actually works. Watching Metroid Prime on the Wii was amazing, utterly amazing. And the new Zelda game looks pretty good, although I think I'd rather play that on the GC.
I have indeed seen Red Steel and Metroid, those have shaken my faith more than anything, largely due to the discrepancy between the controller motion and what happens on screen. Rather than being a cool direct representation, it seems to boil down to a more awkward way of inputting commands (wiggle 1 + A = stab, wiggle 2 + b = swish, etc.). From what I've read the golf game seems alone in having had movements comparable to what you were trying to do in game, sadly it was golf.

The only saving grace, for me, in the wii line-up was the announcement of Smash Brothers Brawl (featuring Solid Snake and Wario). Although once again I'm left worrying it'll be transformed from the pure piece of fun it was to something upsetting gimmicky that involving jiggling my hands about (the announcement contained no details about how the game would involve the wii controller except that they want to offer "something different" from the other games).

Look at KOTOR. KOTOR was a great game, but when Obsidian got a hold of the source code and all the other developer goodies from BioWare, we got the fantastic KOTOR II sequel
Common opinion may be against you there. Although it is fair enough to say they KOTOR 2 should have been better than KOTOR, it wasn't due to Obsidian not being given time to actually finish more than the first half.

To me, it seems Obsidian has everything that was great about Black Isle rolled on top of everything good that Obsidian is making a name for itself with.
The downside is that they aren't the ones in charge of Fallout 3, Bethesda are.

The thing is (as I'm a hardcore NWN player) I've seen little to nothing released for NWN II that doesn't make me anticipate its release more and more each day.
It wouldn't be especially difficult to improve NWN in my opinion. I won the original from Mega on the 3ebb back in the day after he bought it and found he hated it. I got a little more enjoyment out of it, but still found it rather unfulfilling. The lead developer posts a fair bit over on the SA games boards, I feel I've been under using valuable contacts so I may have a dig about and see if I can turn up anything that'll get me excited for this.



What do people think of Spore? I'm worried that what we're seeing is just a hype machine at the moment and what we'll get is essentially Wario Ware with procedural animation and programming.

And on a lighter note I've read that Molyneux has promised to keep his mouth shut about Fable 2. No doubt he's getting sick of being spat on in the street.

[itches]

Although it is fair enough to say they KOTOR 2 should have been better than KOTOR, it wasn't due to Obsidian not being given time to actually finish more than the first half.
Kotor 2 had plenty of bad flaws besides the fact that it wasn't finished.

KOTOR was a great game, but when Obsidian got a hold of the source code and all the other developer goodies from BioWare, we got the fantastic KOTOR II sequal.
When I was playing the end of Kotor 2 I noticed how it was synonymous to the video from The Ring. You are shown a series of random scenes, dialog and pointless running/fighting which kinda makes sense if you know what really happened. When I finally finished my phone rang, when I picked up a voice said "7 days."

[BigRedRod]

Kotor 2 had plenty of bad flaws besides the fact that it wasn't finished.
Such as? I'm sure most could be directly attributed to the game being horrifically rushed.

[itches]

It's been a while since I played it so the memories have faded, but from the top of my head:

The beginning, where they don't tell you fuck about your character. If the character you play is supposed to have some important history bloody well tell us. 'Discovering' it along the way through conversations where from the dialog options it's clear that your character already knew is not clever, it's annoying.

Overpowered PC's. You complained heartily about Kotor being too easy, in Kotor 2 they let to PC and NPC party members just keep getting more and more powerful while the world around them didn't.

Continuity. "Hey, you know what would be fun? Let's destroy the Jedi order the republic! While we're at it we'll change Vrook from a pessimistic guy who can see all the very obvious flaws in training Revan to a grumpy old man. And sex, to make up Kotor being so sex free we need to overload this game with it!"

Oh and how they retconned evil Revan into starting to horrible war to 'strengthen and secure the galaxy.' Yes, he was secretly a good guy all this time!
I'm sure there are more and next time I play through I'll take notes for you.

[BigRedRod]

The beginning, where they don't tell you fuck about your character. If the character you play is supposed to have some important history bloody well tell us. 'Discovering' it along the way through conversations where from the dialog options it's clear that your character already knew is not clever, it's annoying.
I'll give you that, it was a case of a really good idea that didn't quite work out. You need the more linear JRPG style of game tp do things like that with the plot.

Overpowered PC's. You complained heartily about Kotor being too easy, in Kotor 2 they let to PC and NPC party members just keep getting more and more powerful while the world around them didn't.
I set Kotor to hard and don't ever remember dying or struggling in a fight. I'm pretty sure that Kotor 2 actually offered a challenge on hard.

Continuity. "Hey, you know what would be fun? Let's destroy the Jedi order the republic! While we're at it we'll change Vrook from a pessimistic guy who can see all the very obvious flaws in training Revan to a grumpy old man. And sex, to make up Kotor being so sex free we need to overload this game with it!"
I'm not a bit enough Star Wars fan to actually have noticed any of that.

Oh and how they retconned evil Revan into starting to horrible war to 'strengthen and secure the galaxy.' Yes, he was secretly a good guy all this time!
I'm sure there are more and next time I play through I'll take notes for you.
I get the feeling if we'd seen the full plot it would have made more sense and not been a complete turn around.

[itches]

I get the feeling if we'd seen the full plot it would have made more sense and not been a complete turn around.
Hop springs eternal.

[Aavarius]

Honestly, fully understand why you all say what you do about KOTOR and KOTOR II and can't find myself disagreeing too terribly often, but all things considered I enjoyed playing through both games. I may be a minority on that matter, but that's my opinion of the two games and I'm sticking to my guns in that regard. I tend to be the opposite of nit picky (whatever that would be called) when it comes to giving my overall opinion of games so maybe that should be taken into consideration but I still feel they were both money well spent. Now, NWN, even with the two expansions, is neat but still not too terribly impressive. The selling point for me when it came to that game was how easy it was to make and share custom content between players and therefore add to/improve the game experience. Take what you will from that but my opinion still stands.

[BigRedRod]

New Sam & Max!

It's a bit sketchy on details but hopefully it'll actually be released rather than axed at the end of development this time.

The upside of being too busy to have followed E3 as it happened is that I stumble across gems like this every day

[treehouse]

I actually liked KOTOR II quite a bit better than the first. The way the adventure was set up just suited me better, I guess. I do agree that the 'ending' was underwhelming. I'm still not sure exactly what happened.

I'm excited about the Wii, though I am concerned that they won't get the motion-sensing technology up to scratch before release. As has been mentioned, it's pretty clunky right now.

I'm also worried that they are going to take the whole 'revolutionize the industry' thing too far, and ruin working game formulas in the process. For example, the head of Nintendo (don't know his name) says that the current Zelda release (Twilight Princess) will be the last incarnation of Zelda as we know it. What does he mean? Will it suck? Because at the moment, Zelda freaking rocks without flaw.

[Aavarius]

I actually liked KOTOR II quite a bit better than the first.

Huzza! Long live the minority.

...the head of Nintendo (don't know his name) says that the current Zelda release (Twilight Princess) will be the last incarnation of Zelda as we know it. What does he mean? Will it suck? Because at the moment, Zelda freaking rocks without flaw.

Oh, crap. I didn't know he said that. Well, there goes a very, very good game series down the tubes. :tsk:

[BigRedRod]

Meh, I'm sure Zelda will be as Zeldary as it has been since it arrived on the N64. Afterall they are making it for both the Cube and the Wii, I doubt they'll be too different.

[nightinverse]

I'm sure there are more and next time I play through I'll take notes for you.

You're daring to play through again!?

[nightinverse]

Meh, I'm sure Zelda will be as Zeldary as it has been since it arrived on the N64. Afterall they are making it for both the Cube and the Wii, I doubt they'll be too different.

Zelda has been a steady and depressing decline since the days of the SNES. I saw some hope in the franchise with Wind Waker, but... hurm.

[treehouse]

Zelda has been a steady and depressing decline since the days of the SNES.

:?

I'm taking that treehouse cookie! back.

[nightinverse]

What, it's true! The transition to 3D was, indeed, a good move. However, the growth of gameplay did not match the graphical change, and a sense of thin development has followed after the franchise since. Ocarina of Time was a fair title, with a lot of strong elements, but it was neither a magical experience as the prior games, nor was it particularly innovative in any important way. Majora's Mask was... well, all I can say that I liked from that game was the Time concept, and the falling moon. Wind Waker was on to something with the winds... but once again, not on the mark.

I need more from a Zelda game then a new gimmick or two and a prettier Link. How about... a better story? Or numerous new, interrelated gimmicks? Or, perhaps, a better in-game combat/exploration system?

[Linklegacy77]

WTH!?!? Ocarina of Time was quite possibly the best game ever made, and hardly anybody will argue that it wasn't the best game of it's generation. Majora's Mask was also very good. Windwaker kind of annoyed me personally, but I know plenty of people who liked it. Then there are all those gameboy Zelda games that were pretty fun.

[nightinverse]

Then there are all those gameboy Zelda games that were pretty fun.

I'm a big fan of the 2D Zelda experience, to this day. Seasons and Ages had a good thing going, I can freely admit that.

However, saying Ocarina was the best game of it's generation is simply mad. It may be the best in that genre, but not of that generation, under any scale. There is no best game for a whole generation. Hell, there is never a truly best game for a year, and anybody who tries to establish such is blinding themselves.

That said, I like the Best Game of the Year sticker on the PC version of KOTOR. It reminds me that PC games are off in their own little sector of illogic.

[treehouse]

Well, it's a subjective topic, so I'm not going to try to convince you that you liked it if you didn't. I do think Link to the Past was the best title in the Zelda line, but I wouldn't call Ocarina of Time a depressing decline. As I said before, I think the formula they've been using is a winner, and it shouldn't be changed just for the sake of innovation.

Have you played Minish Cap yet, night? If you like the 2D experience better, that one will probably please you. I enjoyed it quite a bit myself.

[nightinverse]

Oh, there hasn't been a LoZ game I haven't liked... not even the ones on the Philips CD-I. I just haven't loved any of the full console releases since the SNES.

[Oneiros]

A Link to the Past and the Minsh Cap are the best Zelda games ever made.

I liked Ocarina, hated Majora's mask, and found the Wind Waker to be good, but disjointed and way too short, dungeon-wise.

Personally, I'd like the same format with new gimmicks. 9 dungeons, some towns, and some new stuff to do each game. The story should evolve, they need to stop rehashing the legendary hero in green story. Either that, or they need to do something along the lines of New Super Mario Bros, which is excellent.

[nightinverse]

Indeed, I think Oneiros is on to something... though I would be willing to have more dungeons on top of that.

A full world would be nice as well, one with a logical population. Not 58 NPCs that never die and a respawning legion of monsters.

I would like to never have the fairy Navi again, on a side note!

[BigRedRod]

WTH!?!? Ocarina of Time was quite possibly the best game ever made, and hardly anybody will argue that it wasn't the best game of it's generation. Majora's Mask was also very good. Windwaker kind of annoyed me personally, but I know plenty of people who liked it. Then there are all those gameboy Zelda games that were pretty fun. Yeah. Pretty much everybody seems to rave about Ocarina of time. It just missed the mark with me. The N64 in general did. Aside from Smash Brothers, that was a great game and worth owning an N64 for.

I think you'll find that there are few who'd call OoT the best game of the PSone/N64 era (I get the feeling these generations have names, I know Nes/Mastersystem was 8 bit and Genesis/Snes was 16, but then bits stopped having meaning.).

New Super Mario Bros, which is excellent. I'm really not on board with Nintendo's "giving everything a stupid name" plan. New Super Mario Brothers is a horrible name and whoever thought it was a good idea should be flogged, or fired. I'd go with the flogging, it has more chance of making sure he won't do it again.

[nightinverse]

Names are irrelevant. Gameplay is what matters.

[BrianL03]

From an advertising perspective, though, it doesn't have the zing or continuum of the old series.

[nightinverse]

Hence the "New" descriptor?

[BrianL03]

Hence the "New" descriptor?

But the issue is that they have more or less reincarnated the original NES SMB game, and updated the graphics with some more 3D imagery.

It's just that you need a catchy name to get people interested in a product. "New" doesn't really cut it anymore.

[Oneiros]

What are they supposed to call it?

It's name is fine, and it's flying off the shelves. The latter is related to the former.

Get off it.

[BigRedRod]

What are they supposed to call it?
Super Mario Brothers 5

Pretty much anything is better than "new" which will sound increasingly stupid as time passes.

[treehouse]

Pretty much anything is better than "new" which will sound increasingly stupid as time passes.

Okay, that I can see.

"Hey, do you guys want to rent 'New Mission Impossible'?"

"Which one is that?"

"The one that came out before 'Even Newer Mission Impossible'....crap never mind, that's a stupid title and I don't want anything to do with the product now."

[Oneiros]

I hate it when people name sequels by number.

It leads to shit like Final Fantasy 13. That just sounds great!

I prefer New Super Mario Bros to Super Mario 5.

[BigRedRod]

And I think FFXIII is a great name, sequential numbering of sequels just makes sense to me I suppose.

I'm not sure where you can go after New Super Mario Brothers, unless they start tacking the release date in the title I suppose so everybody knows just how new it is.

[akiko]

Next up would be New & Improved Super Mario Bros. and we all know how logical that is. :rolls eyes:

[nightinverse]

FFXIII makes me feel cold inside, simply because they haven't been very good for a long stretch. But yes, sequential numbering is preferable to some other methods of denoting progression.

[Linklegacy77]

What makes me feel cold inside is that they are showing off demos for FFXIII before FFXII is ready to be sold.

[BigRedRod]

FFXII is finished, why wouldn't they start showing off FFXIII?