Duel Arcana Discussion

[Lord Twig]

Doesn't the lesser globe of invulnerability nullify 3rd level spells and below? And burning hands is a 1st level spell, right? OK, then how did TarNoch cast the second inside the first? I guess you could rule that his hand, and the affected area, are outside the globe due to it being half-spherical, but that seems weak.

Gah! You are absolutely right. I'll go fix that right now. My only defense is that it has been a very busy day at work. :P

[Lord Twig]

So would all of Gimbal's protections be suppressed since he entered the globe? They were already in effect when the globe was cast, but they were not IN the globe when it was cast. Right now I am thinking that they should all be suppressed.

Thoughts?

[generaljimX]

If they're third level or lower, and he's in the globe, they should be surpressed. It doesn't matter if they are cast within the globe or not. It supresses them if they move into its area.

Speaking of a lesser globe of invulnerability, you forgot to put the picture of one on the map for R3M2.

[The Hive Custodian]

An immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere surrounds you and excludes all spell effects of 3rd level or lower. The area or effect of any such spells does not include the area of the lesser globe of invulnerability. Such spells fail to affect any target located within the globe. Excluded effects include spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like effects from items. However, any type of spell can be cast through or out of the magical globe. Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast. The globe can be brought down by a targeted dispel magic spell, but not by an area dispel magic. You can leave and return to the globe without penalty.
Note that spell effects are not disrupted unless their effects enter the globe, and even then they are merely suppressed, not dispelled.
I interpret this to mean that the globe supresses all spell effects of 3rd level and lower only. It does not dispel spells, nor does it prevent them from being cast successfully. You can cast mage armor inside the globe, but it won't affect you until you leave the globe. If you reenter the globe, or if someone else with mage armor enters, that spell becomes inactive until you/they leave.

In this case, I would rule as follows:

Gimbal's protections become inactive until he leaves the globe.
When TarNoch casts burning hands, the spectators will see a fan of flame materialize at the edge of the globe, projecting outwards. There will be no flame inside the globe where Gimbal is. The spell goes off; it just doesn't do anything useful.

[Lord Twig]

Okay, after some thought and building upon the decisions I have made in the past I have decided it will work this way:

All spells that are active and inside the area of the globe when the globe is cast is not effected by the globe. That is to say, all of TarNoch's spells will be active and would remain active whether he left the globe or not. This would also be true for Gimbal if he had been in the area of the globe when it was cast. Since he was not, his spells will be suppressed.

Spells can be cast out of or through the globe. So anyone can cast spells out of the globe or a caster could target a spell at a creature on the other side of the globe with no interference. Even a Ray of Frost could travel through the globe to hit someone on the other side, but it would fail to affect anyone in the globe if it hit them. Similarly no one, not even the caster of the globe, would be able to cast a 3rd level or lower spell on themselves while they are in the globe. So you could not cast Mage Armor on yourself. You would cast the spell, but it would fail to effect you just as the spell describes. "Such spells fail to affect any target located within the globe." In this case it is not that the spell is dispelled, it just fails because it does not have a valid target.

Area spells can be targeted at a point inside the globe. A fireball would explode from within the globe but would fail to affect anyone inside it. The description of the globe says that spells can travel through the globe, but that their areas do not include the globe. So the Burning Hands would act just as The Hive Custodian describes.

I think that this interpretation has some internal consistency. No spells of 3rd level or lower work in the globe except those that were there from the beginning and all spells can travel out of or through the globe with no trouble.

GeneraljimX: Not sure how the globe got deleted. I will put it back in tomorrow when I am at the computer that I make the maps on. For now just assume it is there. ;)

[Flagg Thornington]

Never tool the globe into account when choosing my last spell.
I also didn't realize that Gimbal became so vulnerable when he entered the globe.
Things might have been very nasty...
Hindsight (and ooc rules clarification) is always 20/20

[generaljimX]

GeneraljimX: Not sure how the globe got deleted. I will put it back in tomorrow when I am at the computer that I make the maps on. For now just assume it is there. ;)

I knew it was still there because it was under the spells list beneath Loopy's HP. I just thought I'd bring it to your attention that it wasn't on the map. Doesn't really affect me, seeing as how its not my turn.

[generaljimX]

In R3M2, the grapple checks for the centipedes are confusing. For both, the second number succeeds. You state it, though, as one centipede getting grappled. Did you just post the second in the wrong order, or mistype? I can go ahead and post my action, seeing as how it doesn't really matter. Just curious, really.

[Chris Chandler]

Just as a question of course, but why are Gimbal's 3rd and lower effects suppressed (being "in effect" before the spell) while Tarnoch's 3rd and lower effects are not supressed?

[Black Plauge]

A creature summoned with a standard action spell cannot make a full attack on the round it is summoned. It can only take a standard action.

[generaljimX]

To answer your question, Chris.

All spells that are active and inside the area of the globe when the globe is cast is not effected by the globe. That is to say, all of TarNoch's spells will be active and would remain active whether he left the globe or not. This would also be true for Gimbal if he had been in the area of the globe when it was cast. Since he was not, his spells will be suppressed.

[Chris Chandler]

Okay - thanks!

[Lord Twig]

A creature summoned with a standard action spell cannot make a full attack on the round it is summoned. It can only take a standard action.

Can you point me to the rule on that? If that is the case I will go back and edit the result.

[Black Plauge]

Can't say that I remember where I saw the ruling, nor can I find it at the moment.

Now, for my objection: obscuring mist is not a valid spell to be cast during the first round. The duel rules clearly state that the only spells which can be cast during the first round are those which target the caster (and possibly his familiar if sharing the spell). Obscuring mist does not have a target, and therefore can't be cast during the first round.

[Chris Chandler]

Good match and good tourny everyone. I look forward to the next opportunity!

[Noocytx]

“Originally Posted by Black Plauge A creature summoned with a standard action spell cannot make a full attack on the round it is summoned. It can only take a standard action. ”
Can you point me to the rule on that? If that is the case I will go back and edit the result.

If I remember right, I believe it is somewhere in complete arcane. Although, for some reason, some of the weather series books are coming to mind, I really want to say it is complete arcane, or possibly complete divine. I'll try to take a look later when I get a chance to look at the books.

[Lord Twig]

Now, for my objection: obscuring mist is not a valid spell to be cast during the first round. The duel rules clearly state that the only spells which can be cast during the first round are those which target the caster (and possibly his familiar if sharing the spell). Obscuring mist does not have a target, and therefore can't be cast during the first round.

Does anyone else have anything to add before I make a ruling on Obscuring Mist?

[Boomlaor]

While I tend to agree with BP on this one, you already ruled on that specific spell.

[generaljimX]

While I tend to agree with BP on this one, you already ruled on that specific spell.

Did he? Now I need to go back and find if/when he did. 200 some ood posts, here I come!

Edit: Ah, so he did. You could cast obscuring mist. It would be the same as the lesser globe of invulnerability.

[Lord Twig]

So the spell in question is:

Obscuring Mist
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Air 1, Clr 1, Drd 1, Sor/Wiz 1, Water 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 20 ft.
Effect: Cloud spreads in 20-ft. radius from you, 20 ft. high
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

and I have compared it to:

Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser
Abjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 10 ft.
Area: 10-ft.-radius spherical emanation, centered on you
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Neither spell has a target. I had previously ruled that the Globe was a valid spell. Then the question of Obscuring Mist came up and thought it said the same thing as the Globe, so it would be valid. So I look now and the two are similar, but not exactly the same.

I am going to go ahead and split hairs and say that since the Globe is “centered on you” that it will count as targeting yourself whereas “spreads in 20-ft. radius from you” is the Mist targeting the area around you instead of you yourself. Honestly allowing the Obscuring Mist in the first round is far to effective for a 1st level spell.

I will get the next duels up tomorrow.

[Black Plauge]

I'm out of town for the weekend. I might have internet access while I'm gone, I might not. I'll be posting again by Tuesday for sure.

Have a happy Memorial Day weekend everyone.

[Lord Twig]

The duels are up. Since it is late on a Friday before Memorial Day weekend I will give everyone until next Tuesday to send in their first actions.

Oh, thanks for updating the standings in the Dormitory thread BP. I forgot about that till just now. :)

[generaljimX]

I am going to go ahead and split hairs and say that since the Globe is “centered on you” that it will count as targeting yourself whereas “spreads in 20-ft. radius from you” is the Mist targeting the area around you instead of you yourself. Honestly allowing the Obscuring Mist in the first round is far to effective for a 1st level spell.


Ah, well that sure changes my tactics. Is quite fair, really. Good thing I have the bye to come up with something....

[Lord Twig]

The duels have been updated.

Darius: I randomly chose where to place Darek. He is still in his starting square of M7, but he is in some other squares now as well. I also did not list the Enlarge Person as effecting Squeekums, but if you want I can add it to him as well. He would have to move to an adjacent square though since he would be small instead of tiny and would not be able to share a square.

[Darius]

Not sharing with Squeekums is fine

[Black Plauge]

First: Incite is a close range spell. At 9th level TarNoch's maximum range is 45 ft. Since the ring is 60 ft across, TarNoch cannot target Loopy with the spell from his current location.

Second: I do not have the Spell Compendium, what does incite do?

[generaljimX]

If you don't have the SC, how do you know it is close range? Just curious.

[Flagg Thornington]

I edited Tarnoch's last action.

[Black Plauge]

The spell index on WotC's site lists the spell's range.

That's also how I knew it was in the Spell Compendium.

[Lord Twig]

Incite allows a will save and affected creatures are not allowed to delay or ready and action for the duration of the spell. Also if you currently delaying you have to act immediately and if you have a readied action you lose it. The duration is 1min/level.

[Lord Twig]

Darius and Black Plauge: You can go ahead and post how or if you would like to counter the spells that are being cast.

[Black Plauge]

So if I understand it right, incite would have absolutely not force any action on Loopy currently because he isn't readying an action or delaying at the moment.

It would, however, prevent him from readying or delaying for what will probaly turn out to be the rest of the match, correct?

[Lord Twig]

So if I understand it right, incite would have absolutely not force any action on Loopy currently because he isn't readying an action or delaying at the moment.

It would, however, prevent him from readying or delaying for what will probaly turn out to be the rest of the match, correct?

Yes, that is the way that it would work.

[Black Plauge]

Okay then. All set.

[Noocytx]

Little late at the moment, but still will include it. Here's one place where they mention that a monster summoned as a standard action can only take a standard action to act.

link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#rapidSummoning)
It's in the conjurer section under rapid summoning.

[generaljimX]

Darius(sp?): I just looked at that spell last night, and I was all "Man, I should have taken that. Wonder how it would work in this setting...". And now look what goes and happens? You cast the spell in this setting. Rather cool spell, if you ask me. I'm babbling now, so I'll shut up....

[Lord Twig]

Well it missed this time, but it does bring up a point.

According to the Duel Arcana rules if someone is forced out of the ring the duel is put on hold until they can move back in. I am going to say that putting the duel on hold ends the combat. So when a duelist makes it back into the ring and the duel starts again, I will re-roll initiative to see who goes first. There will be no prep rounds or time to prepare a counterspell.

[Black Plauge]

Activating a magic item is a standard action unless otherwise stated in its description. Since Pearl of Power doesn't state otherwise, TarNoch cannot cast a normal spell and activate the pearl in the same round.

[Linklegacy77]

I've been lurking this for a while, and it's pretty interesting. Anyway, I thought I could help with BP's argument. In Tome of Magic, there is an item called shadow orb that functions exactly as a pearl of power (it even says so), that takes a standard action to use.

[generaljimX]

I believe he wants to retreive the pearl, but not use it yet. TarNoch may still not have enough time left, though.

[Black Plauge]

According to the match statistics TarNoch already has the pearl in hand.

[generaljimX]

Also, Flagg editted the OOC since I last read it. Seems he does want to activate it......Oh well

[Flagg Thornington]

I read the description in the DMG. It only said "on command". Since he can't activate the pearl he'll just hold it for now.

[Darken]

"On command" is always the normal clause for command word activation items. They are indeed standard actions to activate unless stated otherwise. Note that technically you do not even need to have it in your hand, you just need it to be somewhere on you (ie, not in an extradimensional space for storage), so you do not have to spend a move action to retrieve it.

[generaljimX]

Wow!!! That's all I have to say. TarNoch is one lucky man. I really thought he was going to fail against this second phantasmal killer. I sure have a tough round set up for me after these two matches finish.

[Lord Twig]

I am rather surprised myself. My dice seem to like Flagg. Of course as I said before, one person's good luck is another's bad. Loopy may well get eliminated in the next round.

I was surprised that Loopy didn't spin up his first Phantasmal Killer to a save DC of 28. That would have finished off TarNoch right there.

[Black Plauge]

That was my oversight. I simply forgot to put it down and didn't realize it until after the saves were resolved.

[Lord Twig]

Argh. Apologies again for skipping a day. I will update the duels tomorrow.

[generaljimX]

In match 2, why are the tentacles dispelled? Its probably something that was clearly stated in the rules before we started, but I can't remember what it was that incurred that.

[Lord Twig]

It is not in the rules that I had written, but it is in the rules under the section on spellduels in the Complete Arcane (p176 third paragraph down). Since the Tentacles can not be asked to stand down and wait for Casandrella to re-enter the ring they have to be dispelled. This is the only way to put the duel on 'hold'.

[generaljimX]

OK. Makes sense, esspecially the way you worded it. Thank you for explaning.

[The Hive Custodian]

Well played, I must say.

[Darius]

Well now, that was a stroke of luck for me, I must say. Still a good chance of me losing this duel, but at least I'm back in the running.

[nightinverse]

The running is fun.

[generaljimX]

In Soviet Russia, tournament runs YOU!!

Edit: Or should it be "In Soviet Russia, run tournaments YOU!!"? I like the first one better, but which one is correct?

[The Hive Custodian]

The first one.

You 1 2" becomes "2 1 YOU!!"

... oh God it's spreading.

[Chris Chandler]

That was a nice manuever for breaking the tentacles, though it was still a "skin of your teeth" sort of success.

[Black Plauge]

Well, I'm out. Unless LT manages to roll mimimum damage on the force missiles I don't think Loopy will survive them.

[Lord Twig]

TarNoch is out of Force Missiles. He probably forgot that he cast one at the very beginning of the duel. I sent Flagg a PM asking him to choose something else.

[Linklegacy77]

Lucky break BP.

[generaljimX]

VERY lucky. Darn Fatespinners....

[Flagg Thornington]

I edited my last post, yeah I forgot about the missiles early in the duel.
But here's a nasty spell for ye. Cheers.

[Darius]

Looks like unless I catch another lucky break, Darek will be falling in this match. Well played Flagg.

[Black Plauge]

Force missiles or rainbow blast. Either way I think Loopy's toast.

[Black Plauge]

Looks like the luck gods are smiling on me again. Here's to hoping a change in tactics is going to work.

[Black Plauge]

Ah! Crap. I just remembered what incite does. I'll have to edit my action.


Edit: All fixed.

[Lord Twig]

Okay, I was pretty tied up with work last week. But I will promise consistent updates for this week. Sorry for the delay!

[Flagg Thornington]

Drats, Loopy is now healed. I could have ended it last turn. In fact if you look at when I edited my post you'll see that I went back in and changed the heightened rainbow blast into a plain rainbow blast that I already used.
But after all I wasn't ready to destroy the illusionist so easily...

[Black Plauge]

Loopy does not need to drop his potion to draw his glaive. He won't be able to use the glaive unless he drops the potion, since the glaive is a two handed weapon, but he can hold the glaive in one hand with no problem.

[Lord Twig]

Loopy does not need to drop his potion to draw his glaive. He won't be able to use the glaive unless he drops the potion, since the glaive is a two handed weapon, but he can hold the glaive in one hand with no problem.

True, but you would have to drop something to cast Bear's Endurance, since it requires a somatic component.

[Darius]

I am very much looking forward to a rematch between Casandrella and Darek. We'll see if I get that far though.

[Black Plauge]

Here's hoping that I make the save and that the cone does low enough damage that my energy resistance absorbs it.

[Lord Twig]

Well I guess I was wrong about my dice. They don't roll crappy. They are sadistic!

Honestly I was sure that this match would be over long ago, one way or the other, but my dice just refuse to let someone die. They are going to prolong their pain as long as possible!

It has been interesting to see. Luck obviously plays a huge part in this.

When I started this contest I was sure that whoever landed their big spell first was going to win the match. And for the most part that has been true. But not always! As this match illustrates.

[Linklegacy77]

BP, that's about as lucky as lucky gets. WOW!

[generaljimX]

Very, very lucky. I swear it's because he's a Fatespinner....

Anyways, Lord Twig, please see the note in my sig.

[Chris Chandler]

BP, you have got to be kidding me - could he have rolled a better number? Not just to get absorbed, but exactly absorbed by your protection. You're doing a great job of not losing - so now win already. Sheesh at the cat and mouse...

Say - anyone know where generaljimX has gotten off to?

[Black Plauge]

Whew!

Not what?

Hmm....

[Black Plauge]

Hold on a sec, how did TarNoch have a Cone of Cold left? His character sheet says that he can cast 3 5th level spells per say and he's already cast Contingent Energy Resistance, Lesser Spell Matrix, and a Heightened Rainbow Blast (whose save DC put it at 5th level). Cone of Cold would make his fourth 5th level spell in this match.

[Lord Twig]

Shoot. That's my fault. The Heightened Rainbow Blast should have had a DC of 20, not 21. It was cast as a 4th level spell. In the future I will list the level that a spell has been Heightened to in order to reduce the chance of a mistake like that.

[Black Plauge]

Okay. Makes no difference if that was the mistake. Loopy made that save even at the higher DC so it doesn't affect the match.

[Flagg Thornington]

Tarnoch is an evoker, hence the DC of 21.

[Flagg Thornington]

I'll be gone next week to play a Hot Rod Festival in Arizona next week and will not have access to the web. I should be back and able to post something friday July 7th-my birthday-.

This week should find me posting slightly less while I get ready for departure, but I'll be posting till sunday.

[Black Plauge]

Specialization doesn't grant a bonus to spell DC under normal rules. There is a variant rule that grant such a bonus, but under the normal rules the benefits of specialization are +1 spell slot at each level for a specialist school spell and +2 on Spellcraft checks dealing with spells of your specialty.

[Linklegacy77]

BP is correct.

[generaljimX]

This is the longest round as of yet. I really thought it would be over by now.

I went LARPing, by the way. Seems Chris was the only one that cared...

[Lord Twig]

Indeed, my erratic posting is not speeding things along either. I must say that running these competitions is a huge investment in time. BP had 28 contestants in his Gladiator contest and I don't know how Andorax found the time to keep track of everything in the Conjurer's Chess competition.

Anyway, the turn is posted and another spell has failed to take hold. It just keeps going on! :P :)

[Black Plauge]

The spell didn't fail to take hold, it was cast fine.

It's the damn croc that the spell created that missed its attack.

And yes, keeping track of everything that is on going in a tournament is complicated. I solved the problem by keeping an offline file (in this case a WordPerfect document) for each match which included full character stats so that everything that I needed concerning the characters (except the newly posted actions) was in one easy to find space. I then linked each of those files to the map file for the match so that by opening the map file (which were easier to keep track of) I could instantly access the correct match file.

[nightinverse]

I plan on going LARPing sometime soon with the SCA.

[generaljimX]

Have fun with that. I like our world more than the SCA because we are more fantasy. We have orcs, dwarves, elves, etc. and they don't. They worry about being historic, where we don't so much.

[Darius]

Have fun with that. I like our world more than the SCA because we are more fantasy. We have orcs, dwarves, elves, etc. and they don't. They worry about being historic, where we don't so much.


Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!


Sorry... old prejudices against SCAdians coming to the forefront.

[generaljimX]

Something has to be done while we're waiting for someone to win already. That's the only bad part of the bye...

[nightinverse]

See, I don't want to be in a general Fantasy LARP because my appearance typecasts me as an elf. That leaves the SCA and White Wolf LARPs.

[generaljimX]

If you find the right group, your build(appearance and otherwise) won't matter. I'm 5'9" and am a dwarf. Doesn't really matter with my group as long as you role play it right.

[nightinverse]

See, the issue is that the only group I have found in our area just seems to be stuck on the idea of me as an elf. I am not an elf. I have always staunchly preferred dwarves over the other races, and I would rather not play one of the many elves.

[Chris Chandler]

Y'know... I was so playing off the reminder post that was this big telling us that you would be gone. But, hey, LARPing! Dat's kewl... Glad you had fun!

[Flagg Thornington]

I'm leaving town this evening and will not have internet access till friday morning. Please pause the duel till I return. Thanks, y'all have a good week

[Lord Twig]

I have gone ahead and updated the match. We will wait for Flagg to post his response on Friday.

[Black Plauge]

Finally. A spell that had a decent effect. Now we just have to see if I can capitolize on it.

[generaljimX]

I've wondered this for a while, and after seeing it again in TarNoch's active spells, I've decide to ask. What does nightshield do?

[Lord Twig]

I've wondered this for a while, and after seeing it again in TarNoch's active spells, I've decide to ask. What does nightshield do?

It puts up a shield that stops Magic Missiles, just like a Shield spell, but instead of a +4 shield bonus to AC it adds a +3 bonus to Saving Throws.

[Darius]

As a heads up- I will be without internet starting the 18th of July and will not be returning until the 31st. Hopefully that does snot mean that Darek forfeits any matche that come up, but if so, then so be it.

[Black Plauge]

Unluck was not heightened. It is naturally a 4th level spell, where Loopy prepared it.

Unless, of course, the Spell Compendium changed that. If so, thanks for automatically heightening it for me.

[Lord Twig]

Unluck was not heightened. It is naturally a 4th level spell, where Loopy prepared it.

Unless, of course, the Spell Compendium changed that. If so, thanks for automatically heightening it for me.

Yep, the Spell Compendium changed it so it is now 3rd level.

Actually I find the level changes as a little annoying. I don't think that the spells they changed where that underpowered/overpowered that they needed to change it so that the books no longer agree.

Regardless they did make the change and technically the Spell Compendium would be the latest ruling, so that is what I will use as my primary source.

[Lord Twig]

More than 24 hours have gone by so I have updated the match with the default action for TarNoch.

[Black Plauge]

Grr.... Damn WotC for all these changes. It's hard for those of us without the Spell Compendium to keep up.

[Flagg Thornington]

That's screwy, I posted yesterday and it is not there. Skipped again! I declare a mistrial.

[Lord Twig]

That's screwy, I posted yesterday and it is not there. Skipped again! I declare a mistrial.

Very sorry Flagg. I can not speak for the integrity of the board. There was no post that I could see and I needed to keep things going.

[Lord Twig]

Flagg requested a ruling on how the mist would work, so I let him know and will give him some time to react to it.

[Flagg Thornington]

I edited my last action. Thanks for the clarification.

[Black Plauge]

Clarification needed. How are you listing the spell expirations, LT? Do they last through the appropriate turn on the round listed, or end at the begining of the turn in that round?

[generaljimX]

Very good question. Lets see it reads something like: Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, expires round 16

Hmm....this does leave it up to interpretation. So, LT, the question stands.


/pointless

[Lord Twig]

The spell will expire at the beginning of the caster's turn on the round given.

So Loopy cast his globe on round 7. 9 rounds later, at the beginning of his turn on round 16, the spell will expire.

[Black Plauge]

Good, so you're listing it the same way I do.

You know, this match has been going on for over a month now, making it by far the most hard fought battle of this tournament.

[LeadPal]

I didn't really care about the other matches, but I have to say that this is really a great duel.

And I thought Loopy had the whole tournament won right from the start, too.

[Black Plauge]

Loopy's a one trick pony. Given circumstances which deny him the use of that trick, he's generally toast.

[Lord Twig]

I wanted to update the match, but I don't have my Spell Compendium handy. So the duration for the Master's Touch may be off. I will check and fix it tonight. It won't matter for the next round at least.

[Flagg Thornington]

I believe that it was previously ruled that the bolt will still work outside of the globe. Is that correct?

[Lord Twig]

I believe that it was previously ruled that the bolt will still work outside of the globe. Is that correct?

Yep, it works.

As for the roll, it was 6,6,6,6,5,5,4,4,3 for a total of 45 damage on 9D6. :O

I guess that makes up for the 20 points of damage TarNoch's Cone of Cold did.

[Black Plauge]

As per the unluck spell, that damage must be rerolled and the lower result used.


Edit: Not that it'll likely make much difference with Loopy failing the saving throw, but it's the principle of the matter.

[nightinverse]

Alright, so from what I've seen (And through looking at the book myself) I would like to say Spell Compendium may be one of the most aggravating supplements barring Book of Exalted Deeds.

[Lord Twig]

As per the unluck spell, that damage must be rerolled and the lower result used.


Edit: Not that it'll likely make much difference with Loopy failing the saving throw, but it's the principle of the matter.

Somehow I totally missed that you re-roll damage as well. Anyway, it is fixed and it does mean that Loopy lives through the ordeal.

I will see about posting the next duel tomorrow.

[generaljimX]

He was hoping for a not dead roll. Good match, for everyone involved. It may have taken time but in game it took, what, a minute? I would have been on the edge of my seat the whole time, and be lucky to still have my pants afterwards(where did that come from?). I'm glad its finally over so we can move on. Stupid bye making me wait. Well, there's no need for a bye this round. Four competitors left, only one of which Rasca hasn't faced yet. Time to start plo....I mean, planning.....yes, planning.

Edit: I just realized that Darius is still out of town, and will be until Monday at the earliest. I'm up for not going past the introduction if I get put against him. I just realized I haven't fought TarNoch yet.....Or have I? No, I don't think so......this is what 1 in the morning does to me, so I'll shut up.

[Darken]

Alright, so from what I've seen (And through looking at the book myself) I would like to say Spell Compendium may be one of the most aggravating supplements barring Book of Exalted Deeds.SC has no new materials. Whatever is in the book has always existed elsewhere; they simply pulled everything together for easy reference and removes the setting boundary.

[Black Plauge]

They may have just been pulling things together, but they also rejiggered the spell levels in doing so.

[Lord Twig]

I have all of the initial actions and spells from the players. I will get everything put together and post the first results tomorrow. (Or tonight if I get the chance, but that is not a certainty. :P )

[Linklegacy77]

Wait, flagg is dueling himself? This will be fun.

[generaljimX]

I believe it happend in the Gladiator Tournament as well. Not that rare an occurance if someone is fielding more than one character, really. Ok, it is, but still....

[Lord Twig]

I believe it happend in the Gladiator Tournament as well. Not that rare an occurance if someone is fielding more than one character, really. Ok, it is, but still....

Yes, it was me. Lily, my Bladesinger, knocked Callen, my Dragon Disciple, out of the tournament. :P

[generaljimX]

See? LT fought himself.

Now go update my match! I'm just kidding. I know you have other things to do LT. I'm just hoping to see an update before I leave tomo...later today. I have a good 12 hours, but still. Actually, I have to consider what my actions will be, not being able to see Darek and all....

[Lord Twig]

Sorry about the slow updates. Life has been getting in the way. I will try really hard to make an update everyday this week so we can keep things moving.

Everyone now has Black Plauge's Gladiator match to look forward to, so I don't want to keep them waiting. :)

[generaljimX]

I've already posted Rasca's actions, and I just want to clarify how I would actually go about dispelling the tentacles. Would I use a targeted dispel or would I use a burst to get rid of some of them? I doubt it will ever actually come to that, but I could get lucky.

[Lord Twig]

I've already posted Rasca's actions, and I just want to clarify how I would actually go about dispelling the tentacles. Would I use a targeted dispel or would I use a burst to get rid of some of them? I doubt it will ever actually come to that, but I could get lucky.

You would target the spell (targeted dispel) which would get rid of all of them. However, escaping the grapple is an attack action, so you would only have a move action left after escaping (assuming you won the roll). Rasca will not be able to escape AND dispel in the same round.

[generaljimX]

Ok. Could he cast while grappled? I'm not the best at reading the different components of the spell description(visual, somatic, etc), but I think dispel magic requires a somatic component. If this is the case, no, even if he made the DC 20 Concentration check. I'll revise my action for the time being to be a move, but I may edit it again to be something else(a non-somatic spell, most likely). Oh, crap. I just remebered something else. LT, check your inbox, please.

[Linklegacy77]

If he prepared a still Dispel magic, then yes.

[generaljimX]

So the S in the entry does represent somatic component, then. I don't know if Rasca even has still spell.....

[generaljimX]

Well, it was fun while it lasted. Now I have time to make a Gladiator for BP's tourny, though.

And I realized even if I could have escaped the tentacles grapple, I still couldn't have moved all the way out. Barely could make it with a full movement, and could only move half speed through the tentacles. Ah, oh well.

[Black Plauge]

Flagg, you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move.

[Tashalar]

Well, it seems that aside from BP's Phantom Killer it's the Black Tentacles that dominate the show, eh?

Is that obvious or are most of the characters just not prepared for them? :paranoid:

[Lord Twig]

Well, it seems that aside from BP's Phantom Killer it's the Black Tentacles that dominate the show, eh?

Is that obvious or are most of the characters just not prepared for them? :paranoid:

People weren't prepared. Dimension Door is a 4th level spell and is a "get out of grapple free" spell. Well, almost, you still have to make a Concentration check, but it only has a Verbal component, so can be cast while grappled.

[Flagg Thornington]

Thanks BP, I missed that. LT I edited my last action.

[Darius]

Also, I think more of the contestants were worried about being silenced than about being grappled.

If another Arcane tournament is run, I would expect some change in tactics.

[Chris Chandler]

Oh, absolutely. Most everyone was ready for Evocation-style blasting, and had decent enough will saves. I even took insightful reflexes for my character so he'd fare up well against Reflex saves, and it didn't come up once. Honestly, I was less prepared for the lack of potency in my own offense than worrying about some silly tentacle spell. Bleedin' figments. It's okay, though, the list of phantasmal spells is larger than I realized. That's what workin' the SRD'll do for you...

[Lord Twig]

Also, I think more of the contestants were worried about being silenced than about being grappled.

If another Arcane tournament is run, I would expect some change in tactics.

Worrying about Silence is a little odd since it is a Cleric/Bard spell. Although I guess that there are a number of ways to deafen casters where it might help.

Back to defending against the tentacles. TarNoch has just shown a good defense against them.

[generaljimX]

True, but one dispel and *thudd*, falling damage. I much prefer the more traditional(and more fool proof) freedom of movement. I was thinking more along the lines of offenses than defences, though, when I made Rasca. I think he did fairly well for not having any magical equipment.

[Black Plauge]

No falling damage from a fly spell. Even when dispelled the fly spell ends with what amounts to a free feather fall.

[generaljimX]

Really? I need to read spell descriptions before I post.....

[Lord Twig]

We are getting close to the end. It will be Casandrella vs. Darek in the final round.

Of course if Darek wins there will have to be a second match to determine the winner. Casandrella needs two losses before losing the Duel Arcana.

[Lord Twig]

New week, new match.

[Darius]

Any thoughts on who is going to win this one? Or has everyone else already lost interest?

[generaljimX]

I'm not making any bets yet. After I see what kind of "buffs" each character has at the start, and their opening move(first round of actual combat) I might.

[Lord Twig]

Long weekend, but we are back in business again.

[Tashalar]

Nice work Darius/Darek! That was ... quick...

And a nice partial change of tactics... ;)

Now how would a battle without the black tentacles go? Hm... :worry:

[Darius]

Tashalar- it's a matter of what works. It is possible that a battle could occur w/o tentacles. Part of the problem that I face is that Casandrella is a sorceror which means that while I can cast higher level spells than she can, she can hit me repeatedly with the same spell. That's part of why I lost the first match against her. The good thing about facing her was that I was able to adapt. Of course, I'm going to have to adapt again to adjust for the adjustments that she might make. In my favor is that I already know what spells I'll be facing, whereas I have a bit more flexibility.

What amuses me about this duel is that the two remaining combatants do not have any prestige class levels. I realize that part of it has to do with the draw and who they both faced (and didn't face) in the prelim rounds.

[Tashalar]

No prestige classes? Either of you? :?

Hm... why? As far as I understood it, a wizard and especially a sorcerer character can only gain by getting into PrCs? Sure, it has to be one that is suitable for a Duel Arcana... no Loremaster or similar PrC...

The Fatespinner was a really nasty choice for instance... I would have to look at my books, but aren't there others which one could gain a lot from? Or did you just not want to take the time? ;)

[Chris Chandler]

Yeah, but the fatespinner and the alienist both lost.

[Lord Twig]

To be fair our favorite killer Gnome hit a bit of bad luck with that last match and the first one was lost by a rule loop-hole.

The Alienist is a good class, but the 1 round casting time is very hard to pull off in a duel like this.

[Darius]

As far as I was concerned it was an attempt to prove something- that a core build is viable build and can hold its own, even if just for a short amount of time.

Admittedly, I may have gotten this far just on the basis of good luck and the poor planning of my opponents. I can guarantee that if the same players square off again in a different Arcane Duel it wll have a very different feel to it.

For instance: most characters will have protections against being grappled.

[Chris Chandler]

Yeah, if there is a similar level of power for the next duel, then everyone will be optimized against tentacles, et al., to be left open for something else. I must say that even though I never had to mess with the tentacles, they more than dominated.

[Boomlaor]

I still say they should be required to make a melee touch attack before grappling the first time when cast, but that's neither here nor there.

[Lord Twig]

Final round. After this it is all over. :)

[Darius]

So any thoughts on how this match will pan out?

You know what spells are available to both and they've faced each other twice now. Come on people, let's at least hear a few thoghts.

[Tashalar]

It depends on how the first rounds go... if Darius can cast his tentacles again (IIRC Casandrella can cast them, too?), then it is over... or the other way around... a successful dispel at the start and a nice counterattack might win the duel! ;)

I don't think it will be a long one in any case. :cool:

[Noocytx]

Initiative is huge. Actions in the first round is huge. All depends on how it plays out.

[generaljimX]

I bet this is over in under 10 rounds, including the prep round. I also think whoever wins iniative will probably lose, unless they throw something small to be counter, or nothing at all. Or something HUGE.

[SlagMortar]

Actually, the person who wins initiative could just ready to counter spell, though that could lead to a ready war.

[generaljimX]

That's why I mentioned nothing at all. If you don't cast, you're free to counter.

[Darius]

Okay- different question then: which of the two contestants would you rather face?

[generaljimX]

Having faced both, I'd personally rather face Darek. I more or less can plan for his, and can counter some of it until one of us runs out. He can only cast the tentacles so many times, where-as Casandrella can toss them until she runs out of slots.

[Flagg Thornington]

When I started this tournament pretty much convinced that a wizard can be deadlier than a sorceror at most character levels. I have not been convinced otherwise.

[Linklegacy77]

Well, it's pretty much over.

[nightinverse]

When I started this tournament pretty much convinced that a wizard can be deadlier than a sorceror at most character levels. I have not been convinced otherwise.

The wizard just requires a little more thought. Not much, just a little.

[Darius]

I bet this is over in under 10 rounds, including the prep round. I also think whoever wins iniative will probably lose, unless they throw something small to be counter, or nothing at all. Or something HUGE.

Still think that?

[Flagg Thornington]

Casandrella ran out of see invis scrolls, and I had saved a freedom of movement scroll-which I recently realized was unusable. Unless luck shines on the sorceress she is pretty much toast. I wish my dwarf was the one dueling in the championship, he could teleport and see invisible foes, the match would have been better. Well played Darius.

[Tashalar]

Casandrella ran out of see invis scrolls, and I had saved a freedom of movement scroll-which I recently realized was unusable.
Huh? Why is your freedom of movement scroll unusable? Hm... 4th level spell... should be fine?

Running out of See Invi scrolls at this point when facing Darek is a bit... frustrating I'd say... ;)

Well, even though I don't have a preference for who wins here, I'll cross my fingers for you - so that we'll see a good match still! Otherwise it's like you said... over... :worry:

[Darius]

Freedom of Movement is not a sorcerer/wizard scroll. So unless you have ranks in Use Magic Device, it's not going to work.


Flagg, if I'd ended up facing your dwarf I would prbably have adapted a different set of tactics and a different spell list than I did. I completely reevaluated my spell selection after that first loss to Casandrella, at that may well be the strength of the wizard.

[Flagg Thornington]

The sorceror is limited to a few spells, and that is the biggest problem.
I hope someday there is another duel. I'm sure all the participants will actually read and digest the spell info well before it starts.

I like to see a high-level duel, perhaps in the 15-20th level range.

[Tashalar]

A high-level duel? Hm... wouldn't that be over like really quickly? Let's take 15th level for example...

8th level spells? Whoever wins casts Irresistable Dance and the Duel is over? Since one can see the other's character sheets, one knows what they are susceptible or resistant against, eh? I'm not experience in high-level spellcasting, so what does everyone else have to say to this?

[Boomlaor]

Sounds the same as this one to me Tashalar...whoever casts tentacles first wins.

[Tashalar]

True... in a sense... although power word stun, irresistable dance, or disintegrate (just to pick three from the PHB) are a bit more difficult to prepare against, right?

[Darius]

I think you would see a broader range of defenses and people taking into consideration things like tentacles. There are ways for arcane casters to counter grappling and the like: someone has already mentioned Dimension Door. Metamagic feats also come in handy. Most of us just didn't plan for tentacles or didn't think that they would be the match decider.

And really it is whomever casts tentacles successfully first. If Darek wasn't invisible or Casandrealla could see him, should have countered and like responded in kind.

[generaljimX]

I did forget about invisibility and the greater version in my earlier post....

A high-level duel would be interesting, as people would have to prepare for different and more diffucult things. Instead of tentacles being the match desider, it would be something else, and most people would probably have a defense for everything they could think of.

[Lord Twig]

Sorry for the slow posts, especially since this is the final duel. Work stuff getting in the way.

I think another duel would be interesting now that people have some experience on how it works. I will have to wait to see if I can run another one though. There are a few things that I would change.

Or maybe someone else might want to give it a try. :)

[Darius]

Errr... I do think it is Darek's turn, not Casandrella's.

[Lord Twig]

Errr... I do think it is Darek's turn, not Casandrella's.

Oops! Fixed.

[Lord Twig]

Flagg, you mention Escape Artist check at +7, but your character sheet says +5. Honestly I have already been giving you the +5 when trying to escape. When Casandrella is resisting the tentacles she only has a +3 (+4 BAB -1 Str).

[Darius]

Stoneskin is useful if your opponent is using summoned monsters or physically attacks himself. If all he's using is spells, then no, its not very useful in this setting.
Was reading back through the forum and realized that Stoneskin is incredibly useful... when combined with say, Still Spell. All tentacle related badness, or a lot of it, becomes moot.
If anyone is interested, after this last duel is wrppaed up, I'll post the pell list Darek had prepared in case things had gone south.

[Black Plauge]

I think I tried that, didn't I? I seem to remember stoneskin wearing off before the tentacles.

[Darius]

Did you combine it with still spell?

[Black Plauge]

No, I had it precast (duration is long enough that it can be cast before the match starts).

Still spell might have allowed me to reinforce it though, come to think of it. That would have effectively doubled the amount of time Loopy could have stayed within the tentacles, but that may not have been enough, seeing as Rasca's summons would have probably been able to beat through the second spell soon enough. There was still 4 rounds left on the tentacles when Loopy lost that first match and obscuring mist would have prevented Loopy from targeting his phantasmal killer.

[Darius]

Actually what I meant by combining it was cast stoneskin. Then cast a still spell version of evard's black tentacles, followed by a stilled dispel magic on the tentacles holding you. Voila! You are free and back in the match.

[Lord Twig]

So that's it for the Duel Arcana and we have a winner!

Congratulations Darius!

[Linklegacy77]

Guys, I should mention: that according to the FAQ (which just updated today BTW), DR never applies against damage caused from a spell of any kind, no matter what type of damage the spell deals. So stoneskin would not reduce the damage caused by Evard's Black Tentacles.

[generaljimX]

Does that include damage from summoned creatures? They are brought via a spell, so it could. Probably doesn't, but could.

[Linklegacy77]

I wouldn't say so. The spell's effect is summoning the creature. The spell doesn't damage the opponent, the object called by the spell does. So the answer would probobly be no.

[akiko]

Congrats Darius. Good show.

[Tashalar]

Yeah, congrats to the winner - Darek! Or Darius?! Or both? :roll:

[Darius]

Thank you all. Could you tell that I did a little rejiggering after that defeat to Flagg?

[Geisha]

Would everybody like to have a high level magic tournament? I might be willing to run it.

[Noocytx]

I would be interested, it won't be for a while though. There's at least two more tournaments lined up after the gladiator tournament (three if you include Christine's, but not likely as she took off after a while).

[Linklegacy77]

For a while? She's completely gone!

I'd be interested, but don't let Biff join. We wouldn't have a chance ^^.

[akiko]

Or Darken for that matter. ;)

[Flagg Thornington]

I'd be interested in another wizard's dual, it was a lot of fun. Cheers Darius!

[akiko]

Though I can admit spellcaster suckage, there's only one way to learn. I'd be up for it.

[Geisha]

Why can't we run more than one tournament at the same time?

[generaljimX]

You could, but some people are involved with so many other things 1 tournament is all they can handle at once. You don't want to make people choose between tournys, do you?;)

[Noocytx]

Why can't we run more than one tournament at the same time?
It is my understanding that has been how it's done in the past ... to quote Black Plague from his schedule of events sticky ...
Scheduling Reminder: Tournaments are run sequentially, with the sign-up period for the next tournament generally taking place during the championship match of the current tournament.

That sticky has the list of events that will be taking place, and also events that have been postponed and have the possibility of taking place later should the DM of the event ever wish to host it.

[nightinverse]

Things I could go for in a tournament...
1. Low level multi-combatant
2. Low level spellcasters
3. Natural hunt, low-level druids/rangers/barbarians/rogues.

[Chris Chandler]

Congrats Darius!

[generaljimX]

Did I forget to say congradulations as well? Aw, yeah, I did. Sorry.

CONGRADULATIONS!!!

[Black Plauge]

http://www.woofboard.com/forum/images/smilies/Grumbling.gifmutters about the contest being riggedhttp://www.woofboard.com/forum/images/smilies/Grumbling.gif

http://www.britishspanking.com/forums/images/smilies/congrats.gif

[Darius]

BP- Yep, just call me the Charles van Doren of ORP!

Is it wrong of me to say that I still thought I was going to lose a couple of those early matches? Or that I'm very glad I didn't have to face Loopy? Things could have turned out very poorly a few times there before I settled on a winning strategy.

[generaljimX]

Its ok, BP. You'll win the next one. Especially if someone catches my rules-breaking (though I didn't mean too) before I have to face you. I'm actually proud that I lasted as long as I did in the tourny. Even being taken out by you and Loopy would have been fine....

[Black Plauge]

You'll when the next one.
That's not the point, he ruined my perfect record.

[Chris Chandler]

A new duel arcana would be quite interesting.