Harry Potter and the ORP Admin [WARNING: SPOILERS]

[BigRedRod]

You have been warned, this thread contains SPOILERS for all of the books.
I've decided to allow spoilers in here after I finished the last of the books, discussion without plot speculation is very difficult.
Do not come crying to me if you ignore this warning and ruin the plot of one of the books for yourself.

*UPDATE: THIS WILL NOW INCLUDE THE FINAL BOOK. READ THEM ALL BEFORE YOU VENTURE INTO THESE MURKY DEPTHS*


Yesterday I decided that I'd see what all the fuss was about and read the Harry Potter series as I most likely have them all somewhere in my house.

After many hours of searching I'd found two copies of the chamber of secrets and one of the half-blood prince. And yet, no others. My parents heard of my plight and returned from their own adventures later that evening with a Copy of the Philosopher's Stone.

Armed with the first two books I guessed that I could find copies of the missing three books as and when the need arose.

As I just finished the first, I thought I'd share my experiences and then add more as I read other books. I'll avoid spoilers.

I was impressed by how faithful to the book the first film had been. The book itself however was not so impressive.

Unlike the His Dark Materials series by Philip Pullman the writing style clearly indicating that I was reading a book aimed at Children rather than a book that was enjoyable by both Adults and Children (a small distinction but a really important one).

Rowling makes some very poor stylistic choices (in my eyes), luckily there was only a brain achingly bad one of these every two or three chapters, so I managed to cope.

One of the real issues I have with the series so far is the interaction between the human and wizard worlds. It just plain doesn't make sense and not in a good way that highlights the differences between the two, in a very bad way that kinda cements my opinion that, at least during the first book, Rowling wasn't doing anything special.

I've been told her style tightens up and things mature as the series progresses so I'll continue.

[Gralhruk]

So, any chance you'll post a thread like this *with* spoilers? It would be most appreciated for those of us that are wondering what all the fuss is about but have no intention of actually investing the time to read the series.

[-J-]

That's funny BRR, since I too started reading the series (my wife is a fan, and she's really bad at summarizing =).

Here's my take on it -

The Potter books are kind of the literary version of watching TV. It passes the time, its entertaining, but its not what you would call "meaty".

I really enjoy them (at least the first 2), partly because of the cleanness and innocence of the writing, but mainly because I'm a huge Anglophille.

Now from talking with my wife (who's on book 6) the later books do become more mature (since Harry is becoming more mature).

The first two movies were very true to the books, i'm thinking #4 is going to have to depart since its really long. Haven't read #3 yet.

[BigRedRod]

The first two movies were very true to the books, i'm thinking #4 is going to have to depart since its really long. Haven't read #3 yet.
I can't recall if I've seen three yet. And as for four being too long.

Let's assume it's twice as long. The previous movies were about 2 hours, making this one 4 hours. As 3 hours is the upper limit for a film, they could just play the whole thing at One and a third times normal speed. Bam problem solved! As you can see my future as a highly skilled problem solving Producer is pretty much assured.

So, any chance you'll post a thread like this *with* spoilers? It would be most appreciated for those of us that are wondering what all the fuss is about but have no intention of actually investing the time to read the series.
I'd just do it here if we had spoiler tags, although I'll happy to decorate any potential spoilers with large pink warnings should you have any pressing questions.

[LynMars]

Yeah, I picked them up to see what the fuss was about, and enjoyed them. The muggle-wizard distinction seems a bit odd at times, but I think it's more to remind kids of the differences in the societies at hand, and be a little amusing. She does get better as time goes on; most writers hone and improve their skills as they keep writing. By the time of Half-Blood Prince (who I guessed the identity of partway through), Harry and his friends are dealing with dating and attraction to some classmates. The dangers they face also get more extreme.

The movies are pretty faithful, the 3rd one less so; they leave a lot of important info out (the identity of the Maruaders, Lupin's knowledge of the map, why Harry's Patronus has the form it does) and switch other stuff around (like when he got the new broom). It's still a good Harry Potter movie, though.

Goblet of Fire, from what I understand, is going to have to cut out the Dursleys at least for length, and likely compress quite abit more. They thought of making it two movies at one point.

JKR likes to hint and put tidbits in at various points that don't come up again til a later book. I enjoy the speculation of what some small tidbits may mean later on, and ideas and theories of what may happen next.

I will say the last three books have all had very sad endings...And very good ways of handling a teenager's mindset, especially dealing with some of the things these kids have.

[BigRedRod]

Just finished The Chamber of Secrets (book two) and thought I'd quickly comment before I head out to the cinema.

I don't recall much about the film except that the ending was a bit random. The book manages to have it make sense but the ending is still really quite poor.
The rest of the book is alright though, the stylistic issues I had are almost gone and there seems to be more focus on an actual plot rather than the general wizarding that I suppose was essential in the first book to set the scene.
Although I spotted a paragraph which I'm fairly sure the author just copied directly from the first book as an explanation about something or other (I don't actually remember what though) which was annoying.

The starts of both books though (with Harry at his uncle's house) are still like pulling teeth. I'm tempted to skip over these chapters in later books. Although the scenes were quite funny in the films from what I recall.

[itches]

The starts of both books though (with Harry at his uncle's house) are still ike pulling teeth.

It's like that all the way through. I havn't read the lastest one, but I see no reason for a change.

[BigRedRod]

Oh and the cover art is abysmal. I can see why people buy the adult cover versions

[BigRedRod]

And that is Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban finished. The quality of writing improved a notch again, shame about the clumsy ending though. I'm fairly sure I've seen the film although I only have fuzzy memories so it's hard to comment on the relative qualities.

One thing struck me though, these are thirteen year old kids at school. The dialogue isn't quite right, I understand that some of the reason is that the author would prefer not to include any swearing (at least not directly) so maybe there is nothing that can be done.

Tragically, I don't have a copy of the fourth to hand

[The_Friendly_Fiend]

If you're wondering, there are a few differences between versions U.K. vs. U.S. The dialogue/slag is almost always rewritten for the Americans. Most likely it's because you Brits speak funny, just kidding! :)

[ShadowDawn]

I've been reading since the first book came out, so I just thought I'd weigh in. Plus I stayed up 'til three last night reading the sixth book and am now typing this at noon. : P Personally, I enjoyed the third, fourth, and sixth books because they were substantially darker. The third book was darkest in the ending and at some of the points in the middle- but considering how long the final scene was, that's still plenty dark. The fourth is less dark in tone, but significantly darker in terms of events- this is when the line between "children's book" and "book" get a little blurred. It's a goodly long read, but well worth it for the way everything pulls together- it's better at that that any Potter book before or since. The fifth... well, to be honest, the fifth book is like SW Episodes I and II: it's done entirely for the purpose of the next one. It does a decent job of it, and is still a halfway decent read, but... meh. The sixth is a return to good and more enjoyable writing, but much more mature in tone and events both. Like the earlier books, there's a clearer progression of clues to the "big secrets", many of which come from earlier books, enough that it's probably fairly easy to guess it if you're not reading quickly. Personally, I enjoyed it, as it felt more 'real' and far darker.

Well, there's my take on the different books. And if anyone who's read the sixth book has any thoughts on who R.A.B. is, feel free to share.

[Seer]

I think R.A.B is Remulus A. Black, Sirus' brother. Unless it's a new character that is; the only character I have found with similiar intials though I don't know about the middle name so perhaps not. I have found HP to be an ok fantasy sereis but I zoomed through each (except the 1st one which I found least enjoyable) so they don't occupy me long.

[Gnarsh]

Yeah, I'm definitely thinking Regulus Black. In OotP, Moody (I think it was him) said he was killed for incompetence as a Death Eater, but it may well have been because he turned traitor and stole the horcrux.

[BigRedRod]

Got a copy of number 4 (and 'twas the last Harry Potter book in the store too, so that was lucky) and finally finished the book I was reading for filler.

Although looking at the size of this one, I doubt I'll be able to read it in a day like the others.

[LynMars]

A friend found this LJ entry, and it has some really good supositions about Half-Blood Prince that make some sense.

And at least the Durselys' parts seems to get shorter each book, as he spends more and more time with the Weasleys.

WARNING! Spoiler-riffic!

http://www.livejournal.com/users/garlandgraves/3409.html?thread=63057

[TheDruid20]

::returns from dead::

Ok I am rereading the HBP I have read them all atleast twice now. I need to say BRR the first few are definatly fluffy. As they get further in they get alot more complex and more adult, which was her intent. The first book is aimed at 11 year olds. I mean you don't pick up "Good Night Moon" and discuss its literary worth. I will say however for the genre I think they are exceptional. Regardless of their quality, they have encouraged millions of kids to read. They could be books about bounceing red blobs that do nothing but sing happy songs and they would be excellent books. The accomplishments and impact on popular culture indicate that these books are way more then a poor single mom with no professional writting experiance every intended or anticipated, she just wanted to be able to feed and clothe her kids. If these books were written by someone with a PhD in literature/english would my reaction be the same? Would you be impressed by a 40 yo playing a bach sonata, how about a 4 year old? Put in context I think the books are excellent and they can kill alot of time.

PS if I can finish GOB and OOTP and HBP each in one day you can do it to.

[nightinverse]

-J- is who I agree with here, though I have a few female friends who will gut me for it...

[BigRedRod]

And after much battling with Real Life to get some free time I've finished The Goblet of Fire.

I'm liking the trend for these books to get better and better from mediocre origins and things have even shaped up to make the series a proper series rather than just a series of episodes.

And with the film of this one not having been released yet it is very tricky indeed to make comparrisons. Although as a general comment it is odd to see that certain characters (Snape in particular) are a great deal more one dimensional in the books when compared to the films.

[LynMars]

Snape doesn't come across to me as "one-dimensional"--particularly in later books where his loyalties are questioned and conflicted. The man plays a dangerous game, but the one constant seems to be that he'll protect his students (even the ones he personally dislikes), at pretty much any cost.

As an aside, I neglected to mention that the link I provided above to much supposition and theory is pretty much for the latest book.

[BigRedRod]

And another book is finished, the writing style seems to have reached a steady level of quality now rather than continuing to climb.

The Order of the Phoenix itself however isn't a great book. Very little actually happens and yet it is over 750 pages long. The author seems to understand just how much fifteen year olds whine though. On the plus side it had one or two moments which were actually quite funny, I can't remember any of them, but they existed!

Discussing the books without spoiling anything is tricky. Perhaps after I finish the last I'll open it to full indepth spoiler plot disscussion action (I assume that everybody on the forum who cares about this stuff has actually already read the books)

Also, the Philosopher's stone has now been translated into Latin, Ancient Greek, Welsh and Irish. I'm quite curious as to why.

[nightinverse]

It has been translated into those languages merely because they can translate it into those languages, and a significant number of fans will buy a copy, even if they don't know the language.

[The Alcotroll]

Its a useful teaching tool. Kids who don't want to read about the adventures of Quintus and Scintilla (You remember them Tim, don't you...) might be more enthusiastic about Harry Pothead and the Philosopher's Stoned, even if they have to decipher it from Latin. Salve, Oh Monstrum!

The books have a certain charisma to them, even if they're not that well written in a technical sense. I've managed to read all the books minus the most recent one without actually having to buy one, and that's the way I intend to keep it.

[BigRedRod]

Its a useful teaching tool. Kids who don't want to read about the adventures of Quintus and Scintilla (You remember them Tim, don't you...) might be more enthusiastic about Harry Pothead and the Philosopher's Stoned, even if they have to decipher it from Latin. Salve, Oh Monstrum!
I only had a few Latin lessons... Or "language awareness" as they insisted on calling it. So my latin is limited to saying Salve and shouting Monstrum.
You make a very good point about that the translations, odd that it didn't occur to me considering that my brother is attempting to use Harry Potter in Japanese for that very purpose.

[Flagg Thornington]

Teaching tools for second languages sounds right. I remember reading
Alicia in terra mirabile. (Alice in wonderland).

Many other students seemed interested for the first time ever when the text changed to something they were excited over.

[BigRedRod]

And that would be the last one finished. Better than the previous waffle-fest although the author still has problems with endings and general pacing in my eyes.

Still it was nice to actually have an end in sight for the series. I've not really listened to much news about it so I'm sure whether it was the plan all along to make a certain number of novels or whether she just doesn't want to get trapped (much like Terry Pratchet has been)

Does anyone have any strong objections to me doing a little editing and opening this up to spectulation and plot discussion (i.e. spoilerama)?

[BigRedRod]

I'd forgotten about this.
Just a reminder SPOILERS START HERE KIDS

So yes, do we have actual word that the next book is the last? It seems like there is a fair bit that needs cramming in for it to have any kind of resolution.

My thoughts :
-Harry and friends will go back to Hogwarts despite his claim.
-Snape is a good guy. I don't think anybody has a decent argument to back up any claims to the contrary.
-Dumbledore is staying dead.
-The script writer for the spiderman films will sue JK Rowling for essentially ripping off the dialogue used in the "I can't go out with you" conversation between Harry and Ginny
-RAB is odds on Sirius Black's brother. A bit unopenable locket was mentioned as part of the random objects they found while rootling about in the Black House. I wouldn't be suprised if that is where the Horcrux ended up.

[nightinverse]

On his thoughts:

1. Possibly.
2. That's true, there is no real evidence otherwise. Yay for the Unbreakable Vow.
3. Indeed.
4. The script writer hacked that segment from elsewhere, I'm sure. That doesn't stop the dialogue from being dull and absurd.
5. I agree.

You know what would be funny?

A 2400 page 7th book.

[tyckspoon]

Seven years of Wizard Boarding School, seven books. That's been the plan since the first one as far as anybody other than Ms. Rowling knows. I'd be willing to lay lots of money (probably at very low payoff) that the seventh book wraps it up, even if it has to go to Lord of the Rings or HitchHiker's Guide lengths to do it. Incidentally, if you don't mind me tangenting this for a bit, what do you mean Terry Pratchett got trapped? I haven't seen anything anywhere that indicates he's tired of writing Disc.

And now, thoughts and speculatories:
- They won't be going back for more education. They might use the school as a home base: "Oh, we need something from Snape's ingredient cabinet again. Whup, better go ask Madame Pomfrey how to fix that trap-curse we ran into." Also, I'd suspect Harry would go withdraw all of his small fortune to fund the trio's heroism trip, possibly carrying it in a Bag of Holding-type item.
- The word I'd choose here is 'moral'. Snape is a thoroughly nasty person. I choose to think he's not evil in the sense of Voldemort or Luscious Malfoy, but calling him good seriously stretches the boundaries of the word.
- Force ghost. Maybe some good-magic version of the Horcrux..turn him into a magic mirror or something. Could just be that I don't wanna see him really completely dead; on the other hand, a wizard of the quality Dumbledore is supposed to be, operating in a known probably lethal situation, might be expected to have some sort of contingency charm on himself for this sort of thing. *shrug* Betcha he turns up with Sirius's ghost..zombie..whatever the hell state Sirius is in.
- I don't remember the specifics of either speech, but since that kind of speech is practically a set piece with the names, dates, and locations swapped out to fit the movie/book/whatever..I'll go out on a limb and say there's no plagiarism involved, just a lack of useful variations of the I Can't Date You theme.
- well, duh. This has got to be the absolute easiest to predict in any of the Potter books. If it *isn't* Black, I'm going to send Rowling a card and some extra cash for finding another way to satisfy the clues.

...fast typists make for verbose posters.

[BigRedRod]

Incidentally, if you don't mind me tangenting this for a bit, what do you mean Terry Pratchett got trapped?
The same as actors getting typecast. They have a damn hard time doing anything else and when they do people simple say "well it isn't X"

Seven years of Wizard Boarding School, seven books. That's been the plan since the first one as far as anybody other than Ms. Rowling knows
So nothing official has been said?
Harry really needs to get his act together then if he has one more year to try and find all the Horcrux's and somehow kill Voldemort.

The word I'd choose here is 'moral'. Snape is a thoroughly nasty person. I choose to think he's not evil in the sense of Voldemort or Lucious Malfoy, but calling him good seriously stretches the boundaries of the word.
No, I'm convinced that Snape is a good guy.
Stap yourselves into the wild conjecture train.
Snape used to be a death eater. From the bits of pieces of past we know, it is clear to see that Snape was a bit angsty and so when a chance for payback arose he lept aboard.
And then after a while he realised that what he was doing was simply wrong and he didn't have the stomach to actually do evil. So he plays double-agent and goes to work with Dumbledore.
Now he tries to avoid doing anything on the evil scale with the excuse that he is more useful as a Spy in Hogwart's than anything else.
I assume it is Voldemort's arrogance that lets him ignore the mumurings of his death-eaters about Snape's loyalty.
Snape ends up taking the unbreakable vow in order to avoid damning Malfoy.
Snape has clearly told Dumbledore all about this (there is a conversation in the forest that doesn't make sense any other way I can see).
Dumbledore wouldn't go out begging for his life, he's begging that Snape kill him.
Snape then runs away, while still trying to teach Harry. At this point it would have been about as difficult as putting on a hat for Snape to kill Harry as they make their escape.

And then we have other little bits and pieces like Snape brewing the potion for Lupin and only revealing that he is a werewolf after he transforms again. Snape doesn't like the guy but he was willing to give him another chance..

I think these all point to Snape being a good person, of course Harry will most likely find out as he lies dying. And hurrah for the last book finally giving his character enough depth to cause speculation.

Force ghost. Maybe some good-magic version of the Horcrux..turn him into a magic mirror or something. Could just be that I don't wanna see him really completely dead; on the other hand, a wizard of the quality Dumbledore is supposed to be, operating in a known probably lethal situation, might be expected to have some sort of contingency charm on himself for this sort of thing. *shrug* Betcha he turns up with Sirius's ghost..zombie..whatever the hell state Sirius is in.
Ain't no way, ain't no how. The mirror or his portrait is the only way he'll see anything like them again.
Dumbledore was very clear on the whole "when you're dead, you're dead" thing.

Quite where ghosts come from has never really been explained well, but I'd be suprised if Dumbledore came back in any real way after he was the one saying how you don't get to come back.

I don't remember the specifics of either speech, but since that kind of speech is practically a set piece with the names, dates, and locations swapped out to fit the movie/book/whatever..I'll go out on a limb and say there's no plagiarism involved, just a lack of useful variations of the I Can't Date You theme.
I was being facetious.


Could somebody refresh my memory as to what the six Horcruxes(Sp?) are? Then we can place bets on what the mystery items are.

[itches]

About the unbreakable vow, I got the impression that Snape didn't know what he was vowing to. He was trying to get as much information out of the others as possible by pretending that he already knew when he was trapped into making the vow. During the book there are one or two scenes betwee him and Draco that gave me the impression that he was trying to find out from the boy what he had been sent to do.

[BigRedRod]

That is a good point actually, I'd not considered it.

[itches]

Known ones
Marvolo Gaunt's ring
Tom Riddle's diary
The locket
A cup once belonging to Helga Hufflepuff


Possibles
An unknown item belonging to Godric Gryffindor/An unknown item belonging to Rowena Ravenclaw.
The great snake Nagini

[BigRedRod]

So they've destroyed one and two, I think number three is the Black House. Number four actually involves the Hufflepuffs! But nobody cares about them!

Hang on, wasn't Voldemort's attack on Harry's parents something to do with his sixth Horcrux? Or are my memories playing tricks on me? Some people like suggesting that Harry is one of the Horcruxes but I'm not sure that it makes sense.

And I'm sure I remember Dumbledore saying something about "Oh it won't be a Gryffindor thingy".


Either way, with finding four of them and killing Cap'n Evil himself it is going to be a very busy book. I bet Rowling wishes she'd actually had something happen in the Order of the phoenix now

[itches]

3 is in the black house, or the elf stole it, or that other dude stole it (Mundungus Fletcher) who may have sold it to the barman from the Hog's Head (Dumbledore's brother) who was described walking away from a meeting "drawing his cloak about his throat". That is if it is still a working one, I got the impression from the note that it R.A.B was going to stop it from being that.

Voldemort was going to use the murder of Harry as the act which created the last one, but that obviously didn't work (it's suggested he later used the snake). Some people have suggested the Harry's scar is one.

Dumbledore says the "Oh it won't be a Gryffindor thingy" because he claims the only remaining Gryffindor possession is the sword which is in his office. For the record, he over looks that the sorting hat was a Gryffindor possession.

[tyckspoon]

The Sorting Hat couldn't be one of the Horcruxes under the same reasoning that disqualifies Gryffindor's sword, so it's only a very minor oversight to leave it unlisted.

I think the speculation on Harry being a Horcrux comes from the many mentions that Voldemort managed to unintentionally implant part of himself into Harry. It's a short leap from that to assuming that part was a soul-fragment, given what we now know about the possibility of such things. Although even if Harry does have a bit of Voldy's soul, calling him a Horcrux is probably inaccurate; the bit of soul he contains is almost certainly no longer available to Voldemort to use in that fashion.

On the subject of Snape: I still believe that the sum of his known history indicates that he is moral, not good. They aren't synonyms. I don't believe a real good person would be able to perform the subterfuge necessary to survive as a double agent in the Death Eaters, especially with the almost D&Dish dichotomy that exists in the Potter books; compare most of the faculty of Hogwarts to the known Death Eaters. Not that working at Hogwarts necessitates being good; Filch would certainly be a Death Eater if he had any magical talent.

Extending the tangent: Have you read Good Omens, the Johnny books (Johnny and the Dead, Only You Can Save Mankind), or the Bromeliad trilogy (Truckers, Diggers, and Wings)? It doesn't compare to the size of his Discworld output, but Pratchett still has a respectable record of non-Disc work, and people love it just as much as the Disc stuff. I'm fairly certain he's writing Disc because he enjoys it.

[BigRedRod]

Extending the tangent: Have you read Good Omens, the Johnny books (Johnny and the Dead, Only You Can Save Mankind), or the Bromeliad trilogy (Truckers, Diggers, and Wings)? It doesn't compare to the size of his Discworld output, but Pratchett still has a respectable record of non-Disc work, and people love it just as much as the Disc stuff. I'm fairly certain he's writing Disc because he enjoys it.
He wrote all of those quite a long time ago. And you missed Good Omens on the list of non-disc stuff. The problem is everybody just looked at his attempts and said "Yeah, this isn't as good as your discworld stuff"

Not that working at Hogwarts necessitates being good; Filch would certainly be a Death Eater if he had any magical talent.
Nah. He is just embittered that he doesn't have any magical talent. If he did then he wouldn't be the way he is.

he is moral, not good. They aren't synonyms
So long as the argument is based around our differing views on what good means that is fine. So long as you aren't trying to say that Snape is really evil.
And moral is pretty close to being a synonym for good:
1. Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.
2. Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.
3. Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.
4. Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation.
5. Having psychological rather than physical or tangible effects: a moral victory; moral support.
6. Based on strong likelihood or firm conviction, rather than on the actual evidence: a moral certainty.
Not exactly the same, I'll give you that, but I don't see the value in calling him moral but not good. I see Snape as a shining example of goodness considering he is willing to do whatever it takes.

I'd write more but I have to run now.

[LynMars]

Have to agree with BRR; Snape is a good guy, and is doing good things. I posted a link to a LJ entry about all those suppositions about the last book, rather than retype them out again. Snape's bitter and emo at times, but he's not evil. I actually think the arguement's a bit backwards; while he's good, his morals compared to many others are a bit more flexible, in order to do what he needs. After all, morals themselves are particular to societal structures and beliefs; what's "good morality" in one place isn't necessarily in another place and time.

I think Snape did know what Malfoy was asked to do, or at least had an idea. Snape's biggest saving grace is that he'll protect his students, even the ones he personally dislikes, like Harry; he certainly could have harmed Harry as he escaped, and stopped him from using an Unforgivable Curse. Dumbledore's speech to Malfoy was convincing the boy he wasn't really evil, or a killer. But I think he did have a brief mental conversation with Snape, begging to kill him, to keep his Vow so Malfoy wouldn't have to and to end Dumbledore's own pain. It also has the added benefit of cementing the appearance of Snape's loyalty to Voldemort.

The stories, while told in the third person, pretty much still take Harry's viewpoint on things, with a few interludes (like Spinner's End) taking place where Harry isn't present for foreshadow effect. What we see of Snape most often is the trio's view on him, and like many children, they tend to take things at face value, and stick to their pre-conceived notions of things--even though they've had ample evidence over the years that Snape is on their side, they let personal dislike cloud that. An easy thing to do, granted. The elder wizards do it as well, only really trusting Snape cuz "Dumbledore says so" rather than figuring out why for themselves. It also shows how dependent everyone was on Dumbledore, and how things could easily fall apart without him there to glue it all together. In their own grief and needing someone to blame, they can't consider the other reasons and possibilities, even though they have all the information in front of them as well. They'd all just rather believe their great mentor was somehow wrong and Snape really is evil.

[Flagg Thornington]

I just saw the latest movie for free at a special pre-screening. Pretty good stuff, I may actually read the books, If I can find some time. The dragons and wizard's duels look incredible.

[BigRedRod]

I just saw the latest movie for free at a special pre-screening. Pretty good stuff, I may actually read the books, If I can find some time. The dragons and wizard's duels look incredible.
I wandered past a few friends going to a midmight screening but tragically I had to work last night. Hopefully I'll be able to round the troops for a trip to see it next week.

[Prince Yami]

I saw the newest movie a little while ago and i was happy with it. There were a few things i thought they should not have cut out but the good far outweighed the bad IMO.
And this whole Snape thing... I wouldn't say he is good. A bit moral and trustworthy perhaps but not good. To be honest i don't know what to think of the whole thing that happened with Dumbledore. I have the distinct feeling that, were it not for the vow, it would not have happened in the first place.

[BigRedRod]

I thought the film did a pretty bang up job of cutting out the superfluous bits and getting the story across without randomly changing things as in the previous one or being intolerably long.

[BigRedRod]

Remember: This includes the Seventh book. Don't come crying to me if you read this thread before the seventh book.

In your face internet, I finished the last book before anything was spoilt. Woo!

As for the book itself, meh. It was mostly set outside the world of magic and that is a real shame as the world itself was the thing that made these books stand out in my eyes (it was also possibly the most frustrating aspect).

So Snape was good, we all expected that but I was genuinely concerned that she was going to leave his character as a 1-D obvious badguy right up until he died, so I suppose that is pretty good work.

One small gripe, early on Hermione says she altered the memories of her parents to go and live in Australia. About a page later she complains he has never altered anybody's memory before. That was a little bit odd, although if I noticed it I'm sure there are raging arguments going on about it as I type.

As per usual the ending was a bit clumsy, the last couple of chapters started to feel like the author was working to a page limited and was running out of space.

And the epilogue was a very good idea, although painfully superhappy.

[Benicus]

Wow, I just finished the 7th book in little under 12 hours. I feel like my head might a'splode.

I knew Snape would be good, like everyone else who had a brain (some of my stupider friends thought he would actually go bad). He turned out to be my favorite character of the series, lol.

My biggest gripe with the final book was that it seemed like Rowling went out of her way to save all her favorite characters (Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Hagrid are all pretty much unscathed.) but she kills off lame secondary characters like Dobby (though I did like Lupin, though the werewolf in the movie was shamefully horrible and made me want to vomit).

Ok, scratch that, my biggest complaint was the obvious, clunky, and sometimes annoying, amounts of deus ex machina. Damnit, can't there be a fantasy series of books that doesn't end with deus ex machina in the works?!?!?!

[LeeCHeSSS]

That complaint goes for the entire Potter-series. Rowling is a mediocre author storywise - her plottwists in all the books have never struck me as highly intelligent and convincing. A huge example is how Ron magically hooks up with Harry and Hermione again after their argument...

[BigRedRod]

Thinking more about it: What was the point of the Deathly Hallows? They seemed unrelated to the plot. And the ultimate wand was hardly unbeatable, although perhaps I've just forgotten something about that.

The bits and pieces of wandlore were interesting though, makes me want to redesign the wizard class for D&D to be about wand usage.

A huge example is how Ron magically hooks up with Harry and Hermione again after their argument...
How did he find them? I can't remember the explanation.

[Gnarsh]

The Put-Outer magically transported him to them...somehow.

[LynMars]

Dumbledore put an enchantment on it so that when they said his name, it made a blue glowy thing and he was able to Apparate to their general location.

Apparently Mr Weasley was supposed to die, but she couldn't do it last minute, so Lupin and Tonks got to die instead, right after having their baby. I was expecting Hagrid to go myself.

Snape seemed obvious to me; I really think she painted herself into a literary corner with him, and a few other characters/plots.

I agree on the Deathly Hallows; they seem kinda last-minute add-in, and while I can accept Harry's reasoning of how he was the Wand's master (though that was a rather Claremont-like amount of battle exposition), I wanna know how Dumbledore got it in the first place. In fact, I kinda want a story about Dumbledore's younger years now; those bits of backstory were intriguing to me.

Epilogue left me a little cold; felt rushed. Rowling did want to squeeze more into it, which would have been worse. She gave an interview where she detailed how Victoire was the eldest of Bill and Fleur's many children, Hermoine ended up in Magical Law, and Harry and Ron were Head Aurors, and the trio revolutionized the flailing Ministry and made it a better place. Of course.

Overall, I really enjoyed the story, though a lot of the clumsiness from earlier stories shaped a lot of the clumsiness in this one. There are a lot of bits that could have been trimmed down or cut I think, and less deus ex would have been nice (though I think still less intrusive than previous ones). Some rushed parts that didn't need to be, others overly drawn-out. I think it got a little too big and she didn't know how to wrap everything concisely yet. Still, ignoring the flaws, I can see what is there in terms of characters and overall story and have fun with it if I turn off the English student critique awhile.

[Linklegacy77]

They do explain how Dumbledore got the wand, he got it from Grimwald by defeating him in a duel... which, at the same time undermines the whole 'unbeatable' aspect of it.

And yeah, it was very, very clumsy.

[LynMars]

I think that's what people are wanting explanation of, actually; if the wand's unbeatable, how'd Dumbledore win a duel against it? I mean, he kinda let Draco beat him, and then Harry just whupped Draco with his normal wand and that somehow worked; so what, Grindenwald wasn't using the Unbeatable wand in his fight with Albus?

[nightinverse]

I would presume he let Dumbledore win, due to affection (Not necessarily of a sexual nature) or a change of heart. That is one of a very few possible logical explanations.

While I favour it, I must note that J.K. is unlikely to have selected that one, if she explained it at all to herself. Her understanding of human nature is, as shown by her writing, extremely limited.

[SinbadEV]

You muggles, Grimwald STOLE the wand without defeating the owner (hence the memory Harry saw when Voldemort was reading the wandcrafters mind)... therefore he wasn't the true owner of the wand and it didn't work for him fully (just like it didn't work for Voldemort properly in the end)

I don't really know how Harry got it from Draco though...

[nightinverse]

I must note that I left the book behind half way through in disgust, having had it ruined by a few surprise spoilers and and my own earlier deductions.

[LynMars]

That still doesn't explain things, as then G wouldn't have been the owner, unless Dumbledore defeated the other owner too when he didn't posses the Wand.

Draco never physically had the Wand, but because Draco "defeated" Dumbledore, the Wand's mystical ownership was transfered to Draco--but he was using his original wand when Harry defeated him. Somehow, the Wand knew that and transfered ownership to Harry per Ollivander's descriptions of a wand choosing the better wizard for itself. Voldemort concluded the same thing, but thought it was Snape who had ownership.

[SinbadEV]

sorry... it was meant to be sarcastic, I have corrected it to make intent more obvious, to be honest I though it might be taken wrong when I wrote it... sorry... I black lack of caffeine.

edit:

Meanwhile:

And that still doesn't explain things, as then G wouldn't have been the owner, unless Dumbledore defeated the other owner too when he didn't posses the Wand.

Grimwald wasn't the rightful owner, but as the rightful owner at the time (forget the name, my copy of the books been borrowed) had died of old age, it had no "rightful owner", it's "awsomeness" only came back when D defeated G in a duel, triggering the transfer of owenership from the deceased to Dumbledore (wands arn't smart enough to make the distinction)... so when Harry said near the end that it's power would be broken "like before with so-and so".

I had forgottent the bit where the wand knew that it's master had been defeated even though it wasn't being weilded at the time.

[BigRedRod]

Fake Harry Potter spoilers became something near an artform it would seem in the period between the book being leaked and released. This one made me giggle.

[nightinverse]

That is somewhat hawt. Han gets all the backwards written female characters.