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Mercutio
9th of July, 2011, 03:43
I'm going to post the example combat and example Fireball in the next two posts just to keep them in closer proximity to the actual game.

Mercutio
9th of July, 2011, 03:45
Here's how I'd build a Fireball at PL3. Note that there is no "right" or "wrong" way to do this.

Fireball - Damage, Area (Wide), Increased Range (Long), Full Power, Minimum Range

Damage is 1 per rank. Area adds 1, and Increased Range adds 2. Final cost per rank is 4. For Rank 3, it's 12 CP minus 1 for Full Power and 1 for Minimum Range, for a total cost of 10 CP.

To make it more like D&D (Reflex save for half, rounded down), you can apply the Additional Resistance to two ranks of the FX.

So Rank 1 costs 4 CP, and Ranks 2 and 3 cost 3CP each, for a total of 10 CP, minus Full Power and Minimum range for a total cost of 8 CP.

That's how I'd create Fireball. There are some sample FX that Jackelope King created, and Fireball is one. His doesn't have any of the limitations (Full Power, Minimum Range, or Additional Resistance), meaning you could throw the fireball anywhere you want, and not use the full effect, if you wanted to.

Note: the above is assuming an attack bonus of +3 which limits Damage effect to +3. If you wanted more damage at a smaller attack bonus, you could buy additional ranks of the Damage, so long as Attack Bonus + Damage Bonus doesn't exceed PL * 2.

Also, Fireball is a descriptor. That means if you went up against someone that has Immunity to Fire, he wouldn't take any damage, or if someone had Vulnerability to Fire, they'd take additional damage.

Mercutio
9th of July, 2011, 03:46
Combat is actually very much simplified.

I'll use Trav for an example.

I attack with Trav's Energy Sword. My Melee Attack total (Melee Skill + Strength) is +2, so I roll a d20+2 and compare it to the Defense of my target, which is 10 + Defense Resistance (Defense Skill + Dex + Other modifiers like Feats ). If I get a hit, I then roll for Damage, which for Trav is +4, and compare that to my enemy's Toughness, which is 10 + Toughness Resistance (Toughness Skill + Con + Other modifiers like Armor).

If my damage total beats the Toughness, then depending on how badly I beat the Toughness DC, certain effects take place. The most basic is something called Injured, which is simply a -1 cumulative penalty to Toughness Resistance. If my damage beats Toughness by 5 but less than 10, the enemy gets Injured AND Stunned (losing one action on the next turn). If my damage beats the enemy by 10, the enemy is Injured AND Staggered (losing one action every turn). If the enemy is inflicted with a second Staggered result, he gets knocked out.

I'll use Trav versus hypothetical Mook. Trav is using Energy Sword (Attack +2 and Damage +4) and Mook has Defense +3 and Toughness +3. We'll skip Mook's attack for simplicity.

Round 1 - Trav Attacks and rolls an 11, for 13. Mook's Defense is 13, so Trav hits. Trav now rolls Damage, and rolls a 10, for 14. Mook's Toughness is 13, so Trav Injures Mook. Mook's Toughness drops by 1.

Round 2 - Trav Attacks again, and rolls a 6, for 8. He misses.

Round 3 - Trav attacks and rolls a 13, for 15, and hits. Trav rolls for Damage and gets 14, for 18. Mook's Toughness is now 12 (he's Injured), and so he is Injured AND Stunned, losing another 1 to Toughness and losing 1 action next round.

Round 4 - Trav attacks and rolls a 14 for 16 and hits. Trav rolls for Damage and rolls an 18 for 22 damage. Mook's Toughness is 11. Mook is now Injured AND Staggered, losing another 1 to Toughness and losing 1 action a round for the rest of the combat.

Round 5 - Trav attacks and rolls a 20, for 22, and is a Crit. Trav rolls for Damage and rolls an 11, for 15 + 5 from the Crit and totals 20. Mook's Toughness is now 10, so the damage hits him for Injured AND Staggered (again), and Mook is now Unconscious.

Obviously combat will be a little more fluid and less linear, but that's an example.

SinbadEV
9th of July, 2011, 05:03
@Mercutio, maybe I'm misreading your sheet but did you actually spend any of your 25 equipment points? Or did you spend them + more from using CP on gear? Sheet looks good BTW.

Mercutio
9th of July, 2011, 05:06
Or did you spend them + more from using CP on gear? Sheet looks good BTW.This. I spent the 25 (the sword, blaster, and armor) and an extra 3 CP (equipment is 1 to 5 CP to EP. Devices are 3 to 5 CP to EP) on the rocketpack.

Captain Gavis
9th of July, 2011, 11:55
I just wanted to say I am working on my character it's just slow going as I try to learn the ropes

EDIT: any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated. The aim I have for my concept is (as I realized today while mulling it over) pretty much a WoW Shaman. powers I'm looking to include are as follows: minor healing, Damaging Elemental attacks (fireball, lt. bolt, etc. [especially lighting bolt]), spirit communion. I'm thinking Striker role would be best suited for this concept.

Mercutio
9th of July, 2011, 22:44
I don't play WoW. I can help with the things you listed, but starting at 15 CP, you may either not get all of those, or they'll be fairly weak (like a fireball.llightning bolt that does 1 damage, or something like that). There is a nice feature to the game called Alternate FX, which allows you to purchase, say, Fireball for full cost, but Lightning bolt for only 1 CP as an alternate to the Fireball.

Let me take a hack at it today, and I'm sure I can come up with something pretty quickly. I assume the damaging attacks are more important than healing and communion (and what exactly do you mean by that? Is it an attack, or something more like talking to spirits like a detective?), so I'll build them higher in value than the healing. As for healing, do you mean self-healing, healing others only, healing in a radius around your person, etc? I just need a little bit more granularity on that since I don't play WoW and don't know exactly the kind of thing you're shooting for.

In any case, I'll get lightning bolt/fireball up in a few minutes.

Captain Gavis
10th of July, 2011, 00:59
I was actually wondering if the Alternate FX feat did that (basically let you have the same attack in different flavors without having to purchase them at full price).

specifics (in order of perceived importance):

(elemental) attack spell: medium range, single target, many different flavors (ice,fire, lightning, force, etc.), possible additional effect (stun, freeze, etc.), late levels becoming an AOE possibly

Healing: starting at self and gradually increasing to the point of AOE

Spirit communion: kind of like a sixth sense where the guardian spirits "warn" of upcomming sort of like precognition

Mercutio
10th of July, 2011, 01:05
Okay, here's what I wrote up without knowing the specifics you were looking for. I'll tailor something to your specifics in a bit.

It's not listed on the website, (or the source book Jackelope King took it from, Mutants and Masterminds' "Ultimate Power", but Arrays cost 2 points per rank, and grant you FX rank x 2 CP to spend. Each additional FX costs 1 CP (Alternate FX) instead of the full cost of the FX itself, since it's simply an alternate way to use the "same" FX and can't be used in the same round. The total cost is the Array cost + Alternate FX feats. So, in the following example Array of Elemental Control you can use either Lightning Bolt OR Fireball in a round, but not both. I can tack on any other Alternate FX that costs up to 8CP to build and slap it into the array, but I would only pay 1 CP (Alternate FX feat).

Elemental Control - Array 4 (8 CP), Alternate FX 1 (1 CP)

Lightning Bolt (Base FX) - Damage 3, Area (Narrow), Increased Range (Close), Full Power (8 CP)
Fireball (Alternate FX) - Damage 3, Area (Wide), Increased Range (Long), Full Power, Minimum Range, Additional Resistance (Reflex - Applied to 2 ranks of the FX) (8 CP)


The obvious problem at our level with only 15 CP is that you would now only have 6 CP for Abilities and Skills. Obviously the most important thing to do is buy up the Ranged Attack skill to +3 (3 CP), since Attack + Effect (Damage in this case) can equal PL * 2 (6 in our case). You could conceivably lower the damage bonus (and save some CP) and up the Attack bonus instead. Ultimately, that's your call.

I hope that helps and wasn't as clear as mud.

Oh, and here are three different healing FX.

Healing Touch - Healing 4, Limited to Others (4CP) - Take two actions to grant others a recuperation check against the worst damage condition using your Healing rank bonus, or grant a bonus to resistances against Poison or Disease equal to your Healing rank, or Stabilize a dying character

Healing Aura - Healing 1, Area (Wide), Selective Attack (4CP) - Take two actions to grant whoever you want within your Zone the same benefits as above

Fast Healing - Regeneration (Injured) 3 - (3CP) Free personal Recuperation check once per round

Mercutio
10th of July, 2011, 02:11
Here's the more tailored group. I've varied the damage effects so that they aren't all just balls of energy with different descriptors. You're, of course, welcome to do just that if you want. I just figured it differentiated them all, and allowed for different tactical uses.

Elemental Blast - Array 3, Alternate FX 3 - (9 CP)

Lightning Bolt (Base FX) - Damage 3, Area (Narrow), Increased Range (Close), Distracting (6 CP)
Fireball (Alternate FX) - Damage 2, Area (Wide), Increased Range (Long), Distracting (6 CP)
Cone of Cold (Alternate FX) - Damage 2, Area (Wide), Increased Range (Close), Selective Attack, Distracting (6 CP)
Force Burst (Alternate FX) - Damage 2, Increased Range (Perception), Distracting (6 CP)


Healing Aura - Healing 4, Reduced Action, Personal, Distracting, Tiring (2 CP)

Spirit Communion - Enhanced Senses 4 (Precognition), Distracting, Unreliable, Prolonged Action (1 action) (1 CP)

That's 12 total CP on FX, which doesn't leave you a lot for skills, abilities, feats, etc. You should maybe drop Charisma and Dex to get some extra CP, and buy up Ranged Attack to +2 (you can't buy it to +3 as the Cone of Cold has an Effect modifier of 4 because of the Selective Attack. If you drop Selective Attack, you can buy Cone of Cold to Damage 3, but then you risk hitting companions with the damage. That might be something to think about).

Notes: I bought all the FX with Distracting because that's how I see "Magic Users" working, and I think it's the best translation for things like Spell Failure and AoO's against magic users. I figured Healing should be something fairly limited in use, practically, so that's why I added Tiring. And I didn't think Spirit Communion is something to be used in combat situations, and that when you do use it, it shouldn't always work. Otherwise Precognition is potentially game-breaking.

EDIT: Correction, damage on Fireball should be 2. Fixed above.

SinbadEV
10th of July, 2011, 05:03
Is it too hard to build "playable" characters with the 15 CP limit? I was thinking maybe those "25 dedicated EP" could be switched back to CP so you'd have 20CP to spend and have to Gear yourself from that pool... this will let Mercutio keep his character as is.

The other thought I has was maybe you could lower the cost of "Captain Gavis" FX by having them require some kind of focus... like a staff or wand or something... that way part of the cost of his FX could be deferred to his Gear (not sure how that would work, but maybe he has a wand that gives a +2 bonus to any "Magic" FX... then you could make all the base damages of his spells be 0 (with lightning being +1)... shrug.

suggestions?

Mercutio
10th of July, 2011, 06:08
It's playable. In fact, if you look at the suggestions, 15-30 CP below the "standard" for the level indicates someone has the correct power for the PL, but is a rookie. It also gives you 15 CP of advancement before even thinking about needing to level up the characters to Level 4.

If Captain Gavis is interested, you could build all of those into a device, which gives you a cost break of 3/5. That's probably a good way to do it. He just risks having the Device "stolen" which leave him without much of anything but his equipment.

Now, what this doesn't do is allow for the "Vancian" magic system from D&D. The Vancian magic system has spells "exhausted" after use. You could mimic this with the Fades flaw or "Unreliable - Five Uses" which then requires Captain Gavis to "rest" or some other reasonable condition before he regains the uses of the FX.

Mercutio
10th of July, 2011, 06:55
Here's the Blasting recast as a Wand. If you did it as a Staff that was Hard to Lose, it would cost 8 CP, not a big enough cost break. I added a Dazzle Effect to soak up the extra point you gain from the Device.

Wand of Elemental Blasting - Device 2, Easy to Lose (Grants 10 CP--Array 3, Alternate FX 4)--(6 CP)

Lightning Bolt (Base FX) - Damage 3, Area (Narrow), Increased Range (Close), Distracting (6 CP)
Fireball (Alternate FX) - Damage 2, Area (Wide), Increased Range (Long), Distracting (6 CP)
Cone of Cold (Alternate FX) - Damage 2, Area (Wide), Increased Range (Close), Selective Attack, Distracting (6 CP)
Force Burst (Alternate FX) - Damage 2, Increased Range (Perception), Distracting (6 CP)
Blinding Flash (Alternate FX) - Dazzle 2, Area (Wide), Selective Attack, Distracting (6 CP)

Mercutio
10th of July, 2011, 08:44
Hah, I just saw a way to skimp some more points, this time on the attack side of things. I add the Accurate FX Feat to the Array. I'll drop the Blinding Flash Dazzle and slap Accurate onto it, and all of those blasts have a +2 attack bonus at no extra cost since it's contained within the Device cost.

Wand of Elemental Blasting - Device 2, Easy to Lose (Grants 10 CP--Array 3, Accurate, Alternate FX 3)--(6 CP)

Lightning Bolt (Base FX) - Damage 3, Area (Narrow), Increased Range (Close), Distracting (6 CP)
Fireball (Alternate FX) - Damage 2, Area (Wide), Increased Range (Long), Distracting (6 CP)
Cone of Cold (Alternate FX) - Damage 2, Area (Wide), Increased Range (Close), Selective Attack, Distracting (6 CP)
Force Burst (Alternate FX) - Damage 2, Increased Range (Perception), Distracting (6 CP)


Now you don't need to spend anything on Ranged Attack, or Awareness as an Ability. That's awesome. Four different attacks with at least 2 damage, all with +2 to attack, and it only cost you 6 CP. The one major drawback is that without that Wand, you rely completely on Equipment, and I'd suggest melee weapons (a sword would be a good idea), since the Wand covers Ranged attacks really well. I'd also say an armor. I think a Studded Leather +2 for 4 EP is fair. That leaves you with 16 EP to spend on all sorts of other crap. You could make a 9 EP Device and have 1 EP left to buy something like Night-Vision goggles. Ooh! A Ring of Teleportation - Teleport 3, Change Direction, Change Velocity, Easy (9 EP).

For the remaining 6 CP, buy up Perception to +3 and Defense to +3. I still recommend dropping CHA, and instead of dropping DEX, drop INT. That gives you 4 more points to spread around, and I'd suggest STR +1 and CON +1.

Lune
10th of July, 2011, 11:55
I think he meant more that it requires the staff to cast the spell like a focus, rather than the spell actually coming from the staff.

By the way, go ahead and consider me "in" on this. I'm going to get a concept up today and ask for some help in character building. I have a good idea of what I'm looking for here.

edit: Important question: how much are we allowed to gain from drawbacks?

Mercutio
10th of July, 2011, 12:09
I think he meant more that it requires the staff to cast the spell like a focus, rather than the spell actually coming from the staff. I know what he meant. It would require a wand or staff that Boosts the spells, but then you'd have to buy all the spells in the array, and it would be more expensive that way. Right now he's got 10 CP of FX that cost him 6 CP. If you bought all the Damage FX at rank 1 and put them in an array, it would cost 6 CP by itself, and would require a few more limitations on the FX to get them cheap enough to have any kind of cost reduction. And then you'd have to buy the Staff of Boost, for at least another 2 CP. I can try to do that to show you, but ultimately it would save only 1 CP over the original I posted, and cost you 2 more CP than the "Wand of Elemental Blasting." I'm working on something like this now and will try to have it up in 20 minutes or so.

Edit - Actually Boost won't work. All it does is provide a Dice Pool to pick from the higher rolled result. Which is nice, but doesn't actually add to the Damage FX.

Edit 2 - I don't see a way to actually do this. It's not even that it might be more expensive. I don't think it's possible within the rules.

Edit 3 - I see now why I thought Boost was the answer. In Mutants and Masterminds, it WOULD work, but Boost doesn't up Damage directly. Rather it ups the CP. So if Damage costs 2 CP per rank, you'd need at least Boost 2 to up Damage 1 rank, which in this case would cost 2 CP. HOWEVER, Boost in d20 Advanced works entirely differently.

Edit 4 - In the most recent edition of Mutants and Mastermind, Boost doesn't even exist. Apparently it was so game-breaking they removed it completely form the game.

Long story short, while what I did is not what was asked for, it appears to be the only way to do it such that it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

I'm going to get a concept up today and ask for some help in character building. I have a good idea of what I'm looking for here.If you get an idea up here tonight, I can try to help out tomorrow.

SinbadEV
10th of July, 2011, 13:26
@Lune - Glad your leaning towards joining us... I think three will be a lot easier to work with then 2.

Also, thanks to @Mercucio... you are doing a bang up job of being "guy who knows his stuff"...

Lune
10th of July, 2011, 13:32
Ok, so here is what I'm going for with the character I would like to play:

In a war-torn future of some earthlike planet humans have come to battle strange beings very strongly resembling Angels and Demons. It seems they have been caught in a holy war and because they wanted to be free from both sides they were instead sought as enemies of both for not siding with either. The humans mostly had taken to hiding deep within well fortified underground bunkers where they depended mostly on technology as an ally in their fight. They also tried to stay out of the fight as much as they could and let the Angels and Demons fight eachother. Seeing that even claiming the victory to survive the war was slipping from their grasp they decided on a new tactic: fight fire with fire.

Their scientists began doing genetic manipulation experiments on using the DNA gained from these Angels and Demons and combining it into a human. The first experiments were very hard to control and were forced into destruction. It wasn't until the inclusion of some devices that they became beings who acted mostly human and were controlable.

My character is a result of one of these experiments. She was forced into being destroyed after successfully completing her first mission when there was some behavior noticed that they deemed unacceptable and were unable to control. The behavior? Devouring her target before it was completely terminated.

So here is what I am thinking mechanically speaking.

Drawbacks:
Complete Declarative Amnesia: The character has complete loss of all personal memory. This is very likely because she didn't have any memories to begin with. She does have all of her procedural memory intact likely because she was force fed memories similar to how Neo learned Kung Fu in The Matrix, or how Lawnmowerman worked, Azrael in Batman comics, etc. She was artificially grown in a lab, aged to her current state and force fed only the memories that were essecial for completing missions. She was considered a tool or weapon, not a sentient being.

Weakness: Physical addiction: She must consume the flesh of a being that has a soul 1/day or she begins to get weaker. I'm thinking moderate intensity. I'm also thinking that even though the character knows that she must do this to survive that she also hates it and on some subconscious level has major moral problems with it likely resulting in self loathing. In fact I was thinking of taking that as a seperate drawback.

Involuntary Transformation: After not eating the flesh of a being with a soul for 1 day she must make a cumulatively higher saving throw or enter her alternate combat form and be unable to transform back to her normal form until she feeds.

Gear:
Halo: I want this to be an actual device that works more like an ally but I didn't want to purchase it as an ally as I didn't want it easily targetable like that. Think of this very much like Booster Gold's companion Skeets. Instead of speaking it has a direct mental link to my character's mind. I wanted it to grant a Life Sense type power that senses any type of life that has a soul (obviously DM's descretion counts for a lot there). Appropriate qualities: accurate, penetrates concealment, analytical, radius, communication link, distracting, limited (only living things with souls), noticable (the halo glows when used), prolonged action.

I also would like it to carry certain knowledge skills that it can relay to her when needed but this takes time as it isn't exactly like recalling one's own memories. I'm not sure how to build that actually.

Adrenaline pump: I'm thinking like a Boost FX? Maybe make it like rage and have it cause fatigue when done. This could be added later and for now just be flavor. It could be helping control the character's mental state currently by storing excess amounts of certain hormones and neurotransmitters and using them to keep her "leveled off".

Light Armor Plating: The character is equiped with solid alloy armor plating in the form of bracers, bangles and shoulder pads. Aside from their obvious use (to provide some protection) I was also thinking of including the adrenaline pump in the bracers. I was also thinking of having the adrenaline pump be dependant upon the draining of chemicals from the bodies of other beings. As in a spike could protrude from the bracers and suck out adrenaline and hormones from her victims. It might be needlessly complicated and too hard to stat out though.

FX:
Alternate form: She has the ability to assume a combat form. In this form she grows black claws from her fingers (Damage FX), develops subdermal plating (toughness FX?), grows black feathered wings (Extra Limbs, Flight FX), loses charisma and the use of her beauty power and enters a rage unable to make decisions that don't have to do with combat, or use any skills or abilities not related to combat (not sure how to stat that out).

Unnatural Beauty: She isn't just attractive. Her beauty has actual psychological effects on anyone who sees her. I want to base this off the Mind Control FX but make it severly limited. It would use Alter Emotions with Conscious (in the sense that they do not know they are being mind controlled), Area, Limited (only Lust), Sense-Dependant (sight), noticeable (she is fuckin hot!!, c'mon!). I was also thinking of giving it: Limited (must be scantilly clad or at least wearing form fitting cloths to use this).

Stigmata: She is able to heal the wounds of others but takes damage when doing so. This would be based off the Healing FX with Empathic and Limited to others.

Regeneration: I actually was thinking of doing this with two seperate FX. The first would only work when devouring the flesh of a sentient being using the Source flaw.

The other would be normal regeneration. I didn't understand the bit about Power Level Penalty and how it affects toughness. I think it means you can't put as many ranks into toughness because you are already tougher because you have regeneration? I'm not sure how balanced that is if thats what it means.

Lune
10th of July, 2011, 13:49
From an RP standpoint I was going to have the character very cute and not purposefully manipulative. Also, her Unnatural Beauty FX should also have a flaw along the lines of permanant or always on as she doesn't have any control over it. So she isn't purposefully charming everyone but rather it just happens automatically when she is viewed.

She would come across as very niave and innocent which makes her lusty figure and of course consumption of flesh all the more disturbing. Aside from her subconscious moral self loathing of her dependancy she is almost completely devoid of a sense of what is considered socially acceptable and is prone to fall back on her natural instincts. She lacks any amount of social skill due to her amnesia and often even has problems with simple conversation as she speaks with no shame or even the smallest amount of lack of honesty much like a child would.

I'm going to have to figure out how to stat out these abilities as I can't seem to wrap my head around the difference between an FX Drawback and an FX Flaw. I also don't yet understand the dice pool system or completely how combat works so I will need to read up on that. I don't know how many points I will have left for my basic abilities, feats and skills. I don't plan on taking any skills that aren't related to combat although her Halo will have some.

If I have spare points I might give her a prehensile tail too. I'll have to come up with a suitable picture too. Hm. Hot redheaded girl with horns, a halo and a tail. Shouldn't be too hard to find. Although, I might have to search harder for a pic thats actually PG-13. lol!

Oh, and I was going to make her a controller role.

SinbadEV
10th of July, 2011, 13:53
Wow... I'm having difficulty seeing all that managing to fit in the Power Level and available CP/EP...

... as far as consuming souls or the flesh of the sentient... at first I was like "Just No" but then I was like "Thamco has access to a seemingly infinite source of sentient beings and has the ability to resurrect so maybe they are willing to trade off a few 'less useful' sentients if you prove useful."... so I'm willing to see how it goes... are you thinking eating a brain or heart of do you need to consume the entire body? or were you thinking about just "sucking the life" out of them, like metaphysically.

Lune
10th of July, 2011, 14:53
The actual action would just be eating some flesh. I don't think it would have to be a heart or a brain, although I could definately see her going for a meaty organ like a heart. But the more spiritual side of it would be like consuming a portion of the soul.

I did think about the problem of Thaumco, but came up with a pretty good solution:
Hydra-Burgers! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0705.html)No one said that eating the flesh of the living required them to be dead. Ugh. Creepy, I know. But hey, maybe thats why Thaumco wants to get rid of her in some dungeon stock full of food, er... baddies for her to kill and take their stuff to pay off her life debt.

edit: Hm, I wonder from that perspective if that means Hydras and Trolls regenerate their souls too when they regenerate flesh.

SinbadEV
10th of July, 2011, 15:25
It really depends on your definition of the soul which isn't something I feel like needing to work out as a gameplay mechanic... :P

I would say that a Hydra would regenerate "life-force" but that their soul (if they have one) would be, by definition, "immortal"... so you could take a piece of it or consume it(and have it trapped within her)... but you wouldn't be able to "exhaust" it... I will say that anyone she "feeds" on would be a lot harder to resurrect... and we can call it their "quicken" (like in Highlander) to differentiate it from the "soul".

Lune
10th of July, 2011, 16:05
How about just Sentience instead? Thats probably easier to adjucate.

Lune
10th of July, 2011, 18:03
I'm going to try to price these out to see if I'm doing it right. Lemme know if any of them look off.

Drawbacks:
Complete Declarative Amnesia: (common, minor) +3 CP

Consume the Flesh: (Weakness: Major -1 to all abilities, 1/day, affects Con) +4 CP

Gear: 20 EP = 5 CP
Halo: (Indestructable +2, Restricted +1, Device, +2, Hard to lose +1, Mental Link +1)
Skills: (Each affected by Increased Action Flaw for 2 steps, making it take 2 actions to use these skills) 9 skills/3 Flaw = 3 EP
Academics 3
Science 3
Technology 3
Life Sense: (Accute +1, Penetrates Concealment +4, Radius +1, Communication Link +1, Noticable -1) Limited (only sentient life) /2 = 3 EP

Light Armor Plating: Enhanced Toughness 3 (6 equipment points, +2 subtle) = 8 EP

Adrenaline Pump: Boost 3 (3 points/rank to benefit all Damage FX, -1/rank Reduced range) = 6 EP

FX: 12 CP
Container formula: FX cost = (components + extras – flaws) x rank + (feats – drawbacks)
Combat Form: Alternate Form FX Container: (8 Components -3 Involuntary Transformation*, -1 Noticeable) -1 CP/rank Increased Action for 1 Step) = 2 CP
*Involuntary Transformation: If she hasn't met her Consumed the Flesh Drawback she must make a DC 15 Will save each 24hrs or change to her Combat Form.
Claws: Damage FX (3 ranks, +1 Mighty 1, +1 Split Attack) 5 CP
Flight: (3 ranks to fly at full speed and not lose Dex, 2 points for Fast Flight at 1 rank, -1 Minimum Movement, -1 Reduced Load: Medium) 3 CP

Unnatural Beauty: Mind Control FX: Alter Emotions 3 Ranks (+1 Mental Link, +1 Instant Command, +1 Conscious, -3 FX Loss, -1 Noticable) +1 CP/Rank Area, -1 CP/Rank Limited to one command "Lust for me", -1 CP/Rank Sense Dependant: Sight = 1 CP
*FX Loss: When in Combat form she loses the ability to use this FX.

Stigmata: Healing FX 2 Ranks (+1 Stabilize, -1 Empathic) -1CP/Rank Limited to Others = 2 CP

Consume Flesh: Healing FX 1 Rank (2 CP/rank, -1 Source, +1 Personal, + Restoration, +1 Regrowth) = 4 CP

Regeneration: Regeneration FX 3 Ranks = 3 CP

Lune
10th of July, 2011, 19:05
Unless I did something wrong there (read: likely) I should be at a total of 5 CP for just my Gear and FX minus the Drawbacks I chose. I'm not quiet sure what to do for ability scores and feats because I don't totally understand dice pools and how the combat system works. I'll probably need help with that the most as I never really worked with JK on those parts. I was mostly helping with FX Limitations, FX Feats, FX Drawbacks and FX Extras. This system actually closely follows the Heroes system so it was pretty easy to wrap my head around.

As for Feats the ideas I had were:
Accurate Attack (I think that works good with the Controller's Jab ability?)
Attack Specialization (claws)
Improved Critical (claws)
Uncanny Dodge
Attractive (This works well with Unnatural Beauty)
Barreling Assault (Works good with the Controller's Takedown ability?)
Clear the Room
Distract
Quick Stunt (perhaps using a distract type maneuver rather than a stunt?)

As for abilities I think I would do something like this:
Lower Int to -1
Lower Str to -1, but raise it with enhancement to be higher. This is to represent that her normal strength is low, but her enhanced (FX) strength is high.
Raise Dex
Raise Con

Yep. Thats about all I got until I get advice on where my CP priorities lie now.

Mercutio
10th of July, 2011, 23:24
First - you have 25 Bonus EP for free, so your Devices and other Equipment can be bought with that even keeping in mind the note below on Life Sense.

Second, I think you're confusing Feats, Extras, Flaws, and Drawbacks. Extras and Flaws affect the CP/rank cost of an FX. Feats and Drawbacks are flat modifiers that affect the overall cost AFTER the CP/rank cost is calculated. [(FX cost per rank + Extras - Flaws) * Number of ranks) + (Feats - Drawbacks)] = Total Cost.

Life Sense: (Accute +1, Penetrates Concealment +4, Radius +1, Communication Link +1, Noticable -1) Limited (only sentient life) /2 = 3 EPI count 5 EP. [(+ 1 Accute + 4 Penetrates Concealment +1 Radius + 1 Communication Link - 1 Limited ) * 1 = 6 CP/rank = Extras and Flaws = 6 - Drawbacks (Noticeable 1) = 5 EP

Adrenaline Pump: Boost 3 (3 points/rank to benefit all Damage FX, -1/rank Reduced range) = 6 EPThis works. It takes 1 action to transfer one extra die to a pool. Assuming you Boost as one action and attack as another, you would get to roll 2d20 and pick the higher result. Frankly, I think this version of Boost is far more powerful than the default (a free second d20 roll. That's something you can usually only do with Hero Dice or Combat Dice. It's an unlimited supply of Dice Pool to modify Damage FX, and it only costs 6 CP normally, or 6 EP in this case. I know we're not really talking design philosophy (perhaps I should email JK), but that strikes me as a bit too powerful.

I had a hard time reading this block, so I just formatted it to make it easier on me. I also reformatted the math to make more sense (for me)

Combat Form: Alternate Form FX Container 2 [(5 CP/rank - 1 Noticeable - 1 Increased Action = 3 CP/rank) * 2 = 6 CP (- 3 Involuntary Transformation*) = 3 CP]
Claws: Damage FX (3 ranks, +1 Mighty 1, +1 Split Attack) 5 CP
Flight: (3 ranks to fly at full speed and not lose Dex, 2 points for Fast Flight at 1 rank, -1 Minimum Movement, -1 Reduced Load: Medium) 3 CP
*Involuntary Transformation: If she hasn't met her Consumed the Flesh Drawback each 24hrs, she changes to her Combat Form and cannot resist.

Note: you have 2 CP left to spend in the container, as I count, since Container grants 5 CP per rank and you've only spent 8. Also, the way I read Involuntary Transformation is that you can't willingly switch into the Combat Form, and ONLY do so when you don't meet your conditions, and the -3 modifier doesn't grant you any sort of resistance check, at all, so I modified it a bit to account for that. If you cannot resist the change, no matter what, the intensity value is 3 points


Your pricing on Unnatural Beauty is off.

Below is what I calculate.
Unnatural Beauty: Mind Control FX: Alter Emotions 3 [(1 CP/rank +1 Instant Command, +1 Conscious + 1 Area (Wide) - 1 Limited to One Command - 1 Sense Dependent (Sight) = 2 CP/rank) * 3 = 6 CP (+ 1 Mental Link - 3 FX Loss, -1 Noticeable)] = 3 CP
*FX Loss: When in Combat form she loses the ability to use this FX. Also, I don't think the FX Loss is strong enough to warrant 3 points. Maybe 1. Which would make the total FX cost 5 CP. But that's okay because your Consume Flesh is overpriced.

Consume Flesh: Healing FX 1 Rank [(2 CP/rank + 1 Restoration -1 Personal, - 1 Source) * 1 = 1 CP (+ 1 Regrowth)] = 2 CPDo you really want both Consume Flesh and Regeneration? Also, Regeneration requires you to say what you regenerate, i.e. Injured or Staggered or Ability Damage. I assume you want to regenerate Injured damage once a minute (which is what 3 ranks will buy. Or else it would buy you Recuperations checks once every 30 minutes to remove Injured AND Staggered AND Ability damage).

Stigmata had the right cost but I think you got to it mathematically sideways.
Stigmata: Healing FX 2 Ranks [(2 CP/rank -1 Empathic - 1 Limited to Others = 1 CP/2 ranks) * 2 = 1 CP (+ 1 Stabilize)] = 2 CP

Overall, I calculate 18 CP spent on FX and 24 of 25 EP spent. That leaves you 4 CP to spend on feats/skills, abilities and 1 EP to spend on something like a Commlink or Night Vision goggles.



As a final note - I forgot all about trying to create Character Drawbacks for extra CP. That said, the guideline in the game is no more bonus points from Drawbacks than PL, in this case 3, which would mean you've spent all the CP you can.

Mercutio
10th of July, 2011, 23:52
Advice-wise -- Right now you have no attack bonus, although you should, and the Mighty is wasted on the Claws unless you have at least +1 STR.

I would drop either the Consume Flesh self-heal or Regeneration and hold onto one or the other for when we get more CP from killing stuff. Honestly, I'd probably drop the Regeneration. And that frees up 3 CP.

I just reread Weakness. You have a major Drawback (+3 points) that affects you only once a day (base is 20 minutes, and each step down Time and Value drops the value 1 point, so -3 points) and affects Con (+1 point), which means the overall value of your Weakness is only 1 CP. But that's okay because your Amnesia is common and minor, which only grants 2 CP. Your total drawbacks, at least mathematically the way I read them, only add up to 3, which is what the game says is recommended for a limit.

If your Drawbacks are as I've described, the math on your abilities what I calculated, and you drop the Regeneration FX, you've got 3 CP to spend, which isn't much. I would recommend concentrating on skills, particularly Defense and Melee Attack.

Ultimately, I think you'll need to tone down a few things, and remove the Involuntary Transformation from Combat Form (because she can't change into that form in any method except for not meeting her Drawback). I'd maybe remove the Stigmata FX and save that for later on as well.

Keep in mind we've got 30 CP to earn before we're actually built to our PL's points, and that 30 points will make a huge difference. She could be developing powers as she grows. I might even

SinbadEV
11th of July, 2011, 02:07
Soooo... do people prefer hex or square grids?

We have two flyers, is that like "at will can fly pretty much anywhere" or is it going to cost y'all something.

Also. We need a name for Lune's Genre... thinking "Goth Punk" or "Steven King Style Appocalyptic" or "Post-Modern Horror"

Mercutio
11th of July, 2011, 02:31
I think Post-Modern Horror works.

My flight is at will pretty much anywhere so long as I have the device. Also, you can theoretically tell me "The pack is out of fuel" and give me a Hero Die whenever it's more convenient for you that I don't fly. Lune's flight only works when he's in Combat Form and it requires he move at least 20 feat a round while flying or else he stalls and starts to fall.

SinbadEV
11th of July, 2011, 02:36
How high would I need to make the dungeon ceilings for your flight abilities to be useful in combat situations (I mean, doors are already 5 feet wide due to the simplicity of mapping, it wouldn't be that odd for the ceilings to be 15 or 20 feet up... I don't know, maybe giants built the place or something).

Mercutio
11th of July, 2011, 02:47
Hell, if you wanted to make it so that flight isn't useful always, or that certain rooms are high or low, etc, that's your call. 15 to 20 would work pretty well so that Trav can shoot someone from the air, but still make use of the Interpose/Intercept ability. It's kind of cool because I can be out of melee range and safe from direct attacks but ready an action to Intercept, and then step in front of one of my companions to absorb a blow.

Captain Gavis
11th of July, 2011, 06:24
The other thought I has was maybe you could lower the cost of "Captain Gavis" FX by having them require some kind of focus... like a staff or wand or something... that way part of the cost of his FX could be deferred to his Gear

I agree with this and it would hold true to my concept if my abilities required like a fetish, totem or idol to cast his spells. IS there any way this can be done?

Mercutio
11th of July, 2011, 06:37
Not that I can find. I'm sure you got lost in the large volume of my posts, but the way Boost works in Mutants and Masterminds 2E would allow for such a thing. However, JK has changed how Boost works significantly from M&M 2E, and in fact in M&M 3E did away with the Boost completely.

Boost was initially the way I was trying to look at it, but since that's no longer an option, I simply can't think of a way within the system to create a fetish/rod of focus type of object.

Captain Gavis
11th of July, 2011, 06:40
Don't suppose I could get something house-ruled in could I?

Also, since this is primarily Hack'n'slash will Charisma be important enough to ward against reducing it by 1? I aim toward being an Orc which are usually very brutish and not the nicest beings.

Mercutio
11th of July, 2011, 06:47
I'll post up the text of Boost as it existed in 2E M&M.

BOOST
Effect: Trait Action: Standard (active)
Range: Touch Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Fortitude (harmless) Cost: 1-5 points per rank

You can improve a trait or traits temporarily. You can boost yourself
or others by touch.
Take a standard action to use Boost. Each rank improves the
targeted trait by 1 power point. These temporary points fade at a
rate of 1 per round until they are gone and the trait returns to its
normal value (this rate can be slowed using the Slow Fade power
feat). Temporary power points that restore a trait back to its normal
starting value do not fade.
You can boost the trait again before the temporary power points
have faded, but you cannot add more than your Boost rank in
power points to a trait. Boosts are not cumulative; only the high-
est-ranked one applies to any given trait at any given time. So
combining Boost 3 and Boost 8 results in an increase of 8 power
points, not 11, and applying Boost 10 to a trait after 5 power points
have faded raises the temporary power points back to 10, not 15.

The cost per rank determines the effect of Boost:
• 1 point: Boost improves a single trait, chosen when the effect is
acquired (such as Strength, the Blast power, etc.). If the subject
does not have the targeted trait they may gain it temporarily,
at the GM’s discretion. To affect a list of specific traits, one at a
time, acquire different Boosts as Alternate Power feats.
• 2 points: Boost can affect any trait suiting your descriptors,
one at a time. If the subject does not have the targeted trait
they may gain it temporarily, at the GM’s discretion.
• 3 points: Boost affects all of a group of traits at once (ability
scores, skills, feats, or effects of a particular type or descriptor).
Each affected trait gains the benefits of the Boost. The subject
must have the targeted trait(s).
• 4 points: Boost affects all of the subject’s powers at once.
• 5 points: Boost affects all of the subject’s traits at once.
You cannot Boost permanent or innate effects. Boosted traits must
generally remain within the campaign’s power level limits, although
the GM should feel free to waive or modify this requirement as best
suits the needs of the game (see Buffing Powers on page 120 for
further discussion).

Captain Gavis
11th of July, 2011, 06:54
See in GURPS there was a disadvantage you could add to an advantage to make it cost less per rank that literally made it impossible to use the ability with out a given object/condition. For example you could cast a spell (say summon minion) which would cost you x/rank but you could add a requirement of "fast 24 hrs before the summon" to make the cost per rank reduce by half.

SinbadEV
11th of July, 2011, 06:55
I am nominally okay with house-rules but given my lack of in depth understanding of the system I would defer to Mercucio and Lune who seems to know how things work.

Way I would do it would be that you reduce the cost of an FX by 1CP for every 5EP of equipment you spend on the "required" focus. If you want the focus to have any other stats then you would also need to buy those separately... essencially this makes your 15CP and 25EP act like 20CP... essentially the focus is an extension of your being.

As far as your choice of stats is concerned, I have only though ahead to the opening act... the way I understand these "semi-cooperative" rp systems is that I tailor the story to fit your characters just as much as you have shaped your characters to meet my premise so stat the character you want to play and the story will just have to deal with it... anyway, with Lune's "Black Swan" I don't think the rest of your party will have to worry about being charismatic.

Mercutio
11th of July, 2011, 07:00
I suppose you could add an FX Loss to the overall Container, but that literally amounts to the same cost as the Wand I created. FX Loss 3 (Must have Focus) drops the price of the Elemental Blast FX to be exactly the same as the Wand of Elemental Blast. And it's not technically as good as the Wand, which also grants an Attack Bonus.

EDIT - If you drop a few of the elemental effects (Cone of Cold, Force Burst) that would drop the cost down by 2 CP, but you'd only have Fireball and Lightning then. Not necessarily a bad idea, as you can add those FX as you gain CP.

Captain Gavis
11th of July, 2011, 07:03
ok then I will bull through with what we have right now maybe do a bit of add/drop for abilities. Pretty reasonable that I'm not a god since I assume PL3 is roughly the same as ECL 3 from D&D.

Mercutio
11th of July, 2011, 07:07
ok then I will bull through with what we have right now maybe do a bit of add/drop for abilities. Pretty reasonable that I'm not a god since I assume PL3 is roughly the same as ECL 3 from D&D. Sort of. If we had 45 points to spend, it would be about the same as ECL 3. Remember that although we are at PL3 by level, by starting CP, we're more like PL 1.

I actually kind of like it this way, because I think starting at PL1 with 15 points, it would feel like we cant do much of anything. The most damage you could do is 2, and that's only if you have no attack modifier. At PL3, you can have an Attack +6 that has 0 Bonus to Damage or an Attack with no bonus that does +6 damage on a hit.

Captain Gavis
11th of July, 2011, 07:14
NEW QUESTION: can an individual skill be reduced to gain CP? for example I was thinking of reducing Technology to represent a character who embraces magic as a solution to problems rather than invention of technology so avoids technological advancements to keep his magic "pure".

Mercutio
11th of July, 2011, 07:28
There's nothing that says "No," but neither is there anything that says yes. However, there are two ways to gain extra CP -- Dropping Ability Scores and Adding Drawbacks. Keep in mind that Drawbacks have a suggested limit of PL, so the most you should get as a bonus is 3 CP.

Mercutio
11th of July, 2011, 08:20
FYI - I posted a question to JK about Boost on the "forum" at the wikia site - http://d20advanced.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Boost_Change&t=20110710231310 .

Lune
11th of July, 2011, 14:19
First - you have 25 Bonus EP for free, so your Devices and other Equipment can be bought with that even keeping in mind the note below on Life Sense.
Sinbad had been talking about just giving 20 CP rather than giving the 5 CP of free equipment.

Second, I think you're confusing Feats, Extras, Flaws, and Drawbacks.
No, I know how that works. If you look up the Enhanced Senses (http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Enhanced_Senses) it lists the different the different "qualities" that a sense can have. The way that I read flaws is that they "reduce an effect’s cost per rank by 1 point per application". Since each quality gives a number of ranks you need to spend to gain that individual ability for your sense I believe that the flaw would apply to each quality individually. In otherwords the Limited (only sentient life) would apply to Accute, Penetrates Concealment, Radius and Communication Link reducing each one's cost per rank by 1 point.

Basically the Enhanced Senses FX seems to work a bit more like Containers than any other FX in that you are buying different powers (read: "qualities") with ranks and able to apply feats, flaws, drawbacks and extras to each individually then adding up the total. Thats how I built it. I did it the way the rules read, didn't I? I reduced the effects cost per rank by 1 point per application.

Adrenaline Pump
Yeah. It seemed rather powerful to me too, actually. I wouldn't mind if you wanted to declare that I couldn't use that as a device and instead had to purchase it as a power that is just flavored as being a device. I'm not sure though, really. I mean thats the point of devices. Because it isn't an innate ability it is cheaper to do. *shrug* I leave that to DM's call. I could instead make it give me the Rage feat, I suppose.

Combat Form
Hrm. Not sure how I missed those 2 CP. I think the easiest way to do it would be to remove the Minimum Movement and give it Might +2.

As far as Involuntary Transformation I was using that Drawback to build the ability that I wanted: she is forced to transform into that form when certain conditions are not met. Much like a werewolf who is forced to transform when the moon is full, or a vampire is forced to transform if he hasn't drank blood in a certain amount of time. I figured that it was the closest thing to what I was going for here. The reason that I priced at at -3 is because when she is in that form it prevents her from using her other FX, her frequency would be minimal not granting any points, but her intensity would be a 3. Since it is a -1 to -6 point Drawback, I split frequency and intensity down the middle. Now that I read it again, however I see the sentence about it being 3 points if you can't resist the change at all. I think I would prefer it to be a -2 point Drawback with that being the case. Doing that and trying to keep the cost of the entire container where it should be I guess I would add back the Minimum Movement.

Your pricing on Unnatural Beauty is off.
No it isn't. Drawbacks and Feats are a one time cost that does not affect the CP/rank. Flaws and Extras affect the CP/rank. Area is an Extra that adds +1 CP/Rank. Limited and Sense Dependant are both Flaws that adds -1 CP/Rank. Mental Link, Instant Command and Concious are all Feats that give a one time +1 CP while FX Loss and Noticeable are Drawbacks that give a one time -3 and -1 CP.

Regarding the cost of FX Loss: it is always minor intensity and is frequency -1 to -3. Personally, I think that minor intensity is a bit off if it makes you lose your powers. I mean, what is the Incredible Hulk without his amazing stregth? But even going by what it says, the frequency I think would definately be -3 as it is something that she is likely to face several times per day. In fact, even just once/day would make it a -3 IMO. But being that she is likely going to be in combat often she would likely be using her combat form frequently. Not to mention that she is actually forced to change into her combat form if she hasn't consumed flesh recently.

Do you really want both Consume Flesh and Regeneration?
Yes I do. If not now, eventually.

Also, Regeneration requires you to say what you regenerate, i.e. Injured or Staggered or Ability Damage.
Hm, yeah. I misread that. The first sentense in Regeneration FX makes it sound like you could choose which condition you wanted it to apply to, but the last sentence clarifies it. I guess I would prefer to split it 2 Injured/1 Staggered and leave Ability Damage out.

Stigmata had the right cost but I think you got to it mathematically sideways.
Hrm, your right. What it is that I saw Empathic listed under Flaws but that it had a (-1) listed next to it. I presumed this meant that it was a one time deal as otherwise it wouldn't need to be noted that way as that was standard for Flaws.

Advice-wise -- Right now you have no attack bonus, although you should, and the Mighty is wasted on the Claws unless you have at least +1 STR.
I know. Thats why in the second post I was saying I'd likely raise Strength. ;)

Weakness
You see, there is something missing from that Weakness equation. If you read the description it states that there is frequency (not listed), intensity (in the chart minor, moderate, major) and "base time before a weakness affects you".

Let me give an example: Kryptonite. It's frequency would be uncommon as it is very hard to find stuff and not even natural to earth. So that would give +0.
Intensity, well yeah... it tends to make Supes pretty damn sick as well as lose all his powers. Its probably worse than major, but major at least for a +3. Affects con, so +4.
"base time before a weaknes affects you" would be every turn. He doesn't have to be around it for 20 minutes or even a single minute. It affects him the very instant he comes into contact with it. +4
Thats a total of +8.
(Note: he probably also has FX Loss tied to all of his powers as well but probably only for a -1 considering how uncommon Kryptonite is.)

So in my character's example I would say:
Frequency: Yep, its pretty common. It happens like clockwork every single day and is pretty much unavoidable. +3
Intensity: According to the chart it is major. +3 Also, it affects Con so... +4
"base time before a weakness affects you": Well, even though it is common it isn't very often. It doesn't take 20 minutes, or even a few hours. Its 1/day. So yeah, -3.
Thats a total of +4.

One other note on the entire Drawbacks thing: I couldn't find anywhere that it gave a suggestion for how many Drawbacks you are allowed to start with or even how many you can have in general. Obviously I think there needs to be some cap in place to prevent abuse. However, if this is just a matter of personal opinion I would say that 3 is too low. I would think around 5 seems like the sweet spot in this campaign especially considering the low Character Point:Power Level ratio. But this was why I was asking the GM his opinion on the matter as really, his is the one that matters the most. ;)

Even if I have more Drawbacks than the GM allows (or PL accounts for if that is a rule) I would like to keep the ones I have as I feel they are needed for my character concept even if that means I don't get points for it. Alternatively, if you are going to base total Drawback gain on PL then might I suggest rewarding me the points I'm "owed" from existing Drawbacks once the PL increases?

@Captain Gavis: Regarding your elemental control requiring a wand thing I would recommend the Source Flaw. It isn't listed under everythign but you can see it listed under Regeneration, for instance. And I would think that using your staff as a Source to power your blasts would still be conceivable.

Whew, long post. I think I'll get my character sheet posted and then adjust it according to what is ironed out here. I'll make an effort to make my calculations easier to read too.

Lune
11th of July, 2011, 15:08
Ah, I found the bit in Enhanced Senses that I was looking for. It says to "See the information under Enhanced Movement on applying modifiers to individual ranks of the FX." Enhanced Movement says the following:
When applying modifiers to Enhanced Movement, you can apply the modifier(s) to just one rank of the FX, some of them, or all of them, depending on which movement mode(s) you want to modify. So it’s possible, for example, to make Dimensional Movement Unreliable while having Permeate Affect Others and applying no modifiers to Sure-Footed. The GM should approve any distribution of modifiers to Enhanced Movement. As usual, the total cost of the FX cannot be reduced below 1 character point.
Ok, so to me that means that it is possible to make Accute Limited to only sentient beings, while having Penetrates Concealment have no modifiers from Limited. Or, like in the instance of how I created Life Sense, I could have it apply to all so long as the cost of the FX is not reduced below 1 CP.

Edit:
Ok, I see what I did wrong on Unnatural Beauty. I didn't include Instant Command as an Extra, I did it as a Feat. My bad. Corrected.

SinbadEV
11th of July, 2011, 20:27
To my mind you can take as many drawbacks as you need as long as you don't exceed the games PL because of it right? who cares if you have like 6 attacks as long as none of them give more then a +3 to attack or whatever... one thing I'll point out by my reading is that the "commoness" of a drawback is more of a "a few times per campaign", "once every 'chapter'" or "every few encounters"... to take the example of superman, Kryptonite is exceedingly uncommon... unless you are in Smallville... or you are fighting Lex Luthor... or the script calls for it.

please ask questions in shorter more concise ways if you want strait and decisive answers.

Mercutio
11th of July, 2011, 21:27
Sinbad had been talking about just giving 20 CP rather than giving the 5 CP of free equipment.True, but I think it's cheaper to buy those things with the EP than with the CP.


Since each quality gives a number of ranks you need to spend to gain that individual ability for your sense I believe that the flaw would apply to each quality individually.
...
in that you are buying different powers (read: "qualities") with ranks and able to apply feats, flaws, drawbacks and extras to each individually then adding up the total.
...
Ok, so to me that means that it is possible to make Accute Limited to only sentient beings, while having Penetrates Concealment have no modifiers from Limited.
That's just not how I read that. Those extras applies to the whole "sense". If you bought Life Sense Accute and Enhanced Smell Analytical, you could buy Limited and apply it to either or both individually. But if you bought Smell Acute Analytical, you wouldn't get to applied Limited twice to the same sense. That's how I read it.

Here's the sentence right before the one that refers you to Enhanced Movement.
Enhanced Senses often take advantage of the partial modifiers rule when applying extras and flaws so they affect only particular ranks (and therefore senses)I boldfaced where I get my impression from.

Yes I do. If not now, eventually.I figured you would. I meant right now at this level. You'll even be able to do this at this PL, just not until we cain some extra CP.

I guess I would prefer to split it 2 Injured/1 Staggered and leave Ability Damage out.That's probably a good idea.

One other note on the entire Drawbacks thing: I couldn't find anywhere that it gave a suggestion for how many Drawbacks you are allowed to start with or even how many you can have in general.
"The maximum number of points you can get from drawbacks is generally equal to the campaign’s power level, as set by the GM." -- From the first paragraph of http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Acquiring_Drawbacks

Even if I have more Drawbacks than the GM allows (or PL accounts for if that is a rule) I would like to keep the ones I have as I feel they are needed for my character concept even if that means I don't get points for it.I don't disagree, and it IS up to the GM. I was just noting that there is a suggested limit to avoid abuse, and it's PL. I think JK's fear was that people would take a million minor uncommon Drawbacks worth 1 CP each, and gain a ton of bonus CP for things that rarely come into play.

@Captain Gavis: Regarding your elemental control requiring a wand thing I would recommend the Source Flaw. It isn't listed under everythign but you can see it listed under Regeneration, for instance. And I would think that using your staff as a Source to power your blasts would still be conceivable.The source Flaw would work, but the FX cost STILL comes to 6 CP as the Source would apply to the whole Array. And even though it's still 6 CP, the Wand of Elemental Blasting that has the Accurate feat is actually better, as it grants a +2 bonus to attacks with it. I've tried, again, and I just can't get it cheaper than 6 CP. And considering what it does, that's actually pretty darn cheap.

Mercutio
11th of July, 2011, 22:08
Lune - Double-checking numbers for Orunlu. Apart from the disagreements we have on pricing the Life Sense (that's the biggest thing I have a problem with - and in the grand scheme of things, it's hardly game-breaking), I only see two errors:

1. Orunlu's Attack + Damage > PL * 2 . You have +2 to attack and +5 to damage. (3 ranks of Damage + 2 Might). If you drop from Mighty 2 to Mighty 1, then it fits the PL cap as it becomes +2 to attack and +4 to damage.

2. I think the Halo should cost 8 EP. Base cost of Equipment is 1, +2 Indestructible + 1 Restricted + 2 Device + 1 Hard to Lose + 1 Mental Link = 8. Yeah, it's only 1 EP. In any case, you have EP to spare. I count only 19 EP (or 20 if the way I priced it is accurate) used of the 25 you have. If you are going to used the 20 CP instead of 15 + 25 EP, you actually have an extra CP to spend.

The only other question I have is why does "Strength" have an 8 next to it?

Captain Gavis
12th of July, 2011, 07:06
EP is equal to CP for cost to create an item with an effect right? like a "wand" with

Healing Touch - Healing 4, Limited to Others (4CP) - Take two actions to grant others a recuperation check against the worst damage condition using your Healing rank bonus, or grant a bonus to resistances against Poison or Disease equal to your Healing rank, or Stabilize a dying character

Healing Aura - Healing 1, Area (Wide), Selective Attack (4CP) - Take two actions to grant whoever you want within your Zone the same benefits as above

Would be 8 EP right? (any other modifiers not withstanding)

Mercutio
12th of July, 2011, 07:08
Yes. That's correct. Are you thinking to do this to save some CP? I think it's probably a good idea.

Captain Gavis
12th of July, 2011, 07:13
I was going to put my healing abilities and my precog. ability on items to free up some CP...The heals would be a staff and the spirit sense would be a totem that would only be used out of combat

Captain Gavis
12th of July, 2011, 08:21
My character is up....please look it over carefully just in case I goofed up big time

Mercutio
12th of July, 2011, 09:23
First thing - Since you can't use both the Heal Others and Area Heal at the same time, you could buy the Area Heal as an Alternate FX, and save 3 EP.

Second - with your Shaman Vestment granting 5 toughness, your +1 Base Toughness and +1 Defense, your Reflex + Toughness > PL*2. Buy down the Vestment to +4, and that brings you below the PL cap, and saves you 2 more EP.

Third - Since you have no bonus to Melee Attack, use 1 of those extra 5 EP to buy the Accurate FX feat for your Bear Claw, to get +2 to attack, and 2 more EP to buy your damage up to +4.

That still leaves you with the 1 unspent from before and 2 more. With that you could buy Infravision, Ultra-Hearing, and Communication Link for the Shaman's Hood. (just suggestions, obviously. I think I'll have to go back and buy a CommLink or something like that too.

Fourth - You could add the FX Loss Drawback to the Elemental Blast array for -1 point, with the stipulation that you have to commune with the spirits once a day to recharge your powers. Then with that free CP, you could add the Accurate Feat to the same Array, which gives you a +2 bonus to attacks with the Array.

That's all I see. I might try to think of another tweak or two to shave some more points.

Captain Gavis
12th of July, 2011, 09:34
Thanks for the help Mercutio!

one question: If I add the FX Loss Drawback to my Array will it limit how often I can use the ability or does it just add the daily communion session and leave the rest the same?

Edit: Also can the Noticeable drawback be added to the head piece to reduce the cost of all the effects?

Mercutio
12th of July, 2011, 10:16
one question: If I add the FX Loss Drawback to my Array will it limit how often I can use the ability or does it just add the daily communion session and leave the rest the same?What happens is that if you are prevented from the daily communion, then you can't use the ability, just like what would happen in D&D if a wizard didn't have a chance to prepare spells. Basically, it gives SinbadEV a chance to screw you about once every 3 "sessions" in exchange for a price break on the FX.

Edit: Also can the Noticeable drawback be added to the head piece to reduce the cost of all the effects?I'll look at Noticeable, but I think that would be okay. That means that it would do something like glow brightly, tipping off anyone who sees you that the head piece is doing something for you. EDIT: I think Noticeable is perfect for that. Maybe there's like a gem that glows brightly when you use it.

Also, for your Era, how about Classical Age, which would do some explaining as to why he's illiterate.



Also - SinbadEV, I added a small moderate Drawback for 2 CP (a weakness "Nyctophobia - Fear of the Dark" that imposes penalties on all checks, Attack Rolls and Defenses for every 20 minutes spent in the dark without a nearby light source). I used those bonus CP to buy 5 more EP (bought an Energy Dagger, a commlink, and a lantern), and a Feat (Taunt).

Captain Gavis
12th of July, 2011, 20:32
Also, for your Era, how about Classical Age, which would do some explaining as to why he's illiterate.


yea my era was a struggle since the premise of the material I "borrowed" him from is a real-time strategy game and mixed that with common conceptions of primitive culture (meaning strong oral history and no written history eliminating the need to read). so maybe an era of primitive stone age would be closer?

SinbadEV
12th of July, 2011, 20:57
Welp... it looks like y'all have a handle on your characters, are there any outstanding issues at this point?

Basically today is me working until 3, riding the bus until 5 and then picking up a new washer/dryer at around 6 so definitely by 8PM (Easter Daylight Time GMT -4) I should have enough free time to get the game "started"... shouldn't be too busy at work today so I'll keep an eye on these forums to maintain communication...

I have Twitter, Facebook, and Google+ accounts and am not very protective of my email so if you want to stalk me outside of these forums PM me for that stuff...

Mercutio
12th of July, 2011, 21:00
I suppose primitive age might work.

SinbadEV
12th of July, 2011, 21:14
I see you as more in the standard D&D Medieval Age era, but being from a primitive tribe, similar to the "barbarian" classes, I mean, you're not a "caveman" talking in grunts, you just happen to be from a more rugged people without a reliance on written language.... that said, I think we all get the basic idea which was point of choosing an era for your characters.

ALSO: a note on eras/settings

You can choose what worlds you are from for the sake of roleplaying... but this is how I would see your characters behaving out of genre/era.

You've all been at Thaumco long enough to know there's more to the multi-verse then you are familiar with but spaceman and darkangel are likely to be surprised by a Dragon showing up but perhaps have some pre-conceived notions about them from their own cultures pre-historical mythology, while shaman would be familiar with them and just be plum afraid.

On being confronted by a creature you are all unfamiliar with and don't recognize from mythology or real world experience/knowledge, shaman will be "oh, another race", spaceman will be like "oh look, an alien" and darkangel will be like "is that some kind of geneticly engineered super-soldier or mutant?".

(Also, I'll get around to learning your characters before making real posts... forgive the shorthand.)

Mercutio
13th of July, 2011, 02:41
With JK's guidance (Enhanced Trait - duh), I tried to tweak the Elemental Blast FX. Everything I came up with cost the same. The benefit to reduced cost for items isn't large enough to skimp any more points off of the FX.

SinbadEV
13th of July, 2011, 03:14
Alright, this WILL be the map you all land in when the game starts but this is mostly to confirm that this kind of combat map is A) right for D20^ and B) meets your expectations as players in regards to clarity and aesthetics etc.

http://online-roleplaying.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3157&stc=1&d=1310493628

(grid cells are 5'x5', "subgrid" is just for "is enough of a tile exposed for a player to pass through it" guestimations)

Also, as your first in game action you will need to make a "there's something you might be able to see" type check (perception)... so do that and tell me how far you can see I suppose.

Also, you'r coming out of the "Transporter" in the same arrangement you go in, so I've assumed your inicial position... you can have a free 5' step if you want before the game starts...

also, is there a hard/fast rule about diagonal movement in D20^, if not you can move diagonally as you would normally but you "threaten" the squares on either side of your movement so:


2000
00B0
0A00
0001

To move from A to B costs one step but monsters at 1 and 2 would get attacks of opportunity.

Also, if both "corners" are blocked you can't pass diagonally.


Can't Pass from A to B:
XB
AX

Can Pass from A to B:
0B
AX



Also Also: Do you like the map inline or would you rather it just be an attachment you can view.

Jackelope King
13th of July, 2011, 03:47
Hey folks. Merc shot me the question earlier, and sorry it took a bit to get back. That section of the wiki doesn't get a whole lot of traffic, so I don't check it daily.

If you have any further questions, lemee know. Mercutio has my ear now, so it should be a bit more prompt ;)

Mercutio
13th of July, 2011, 04:04
Movement is less regimented. Far, far less regimented.

Here's how I'd break up your map for Zones.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/883600/IndenturedAdventures_MAP_modified.png

Here's the link where Move is explained. http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Move

Basically if there was a monster in Zone 6 that I wanted to engage in a melee, it would take me one Move Action with 2 Moves (one to move from Zone 5 to Zone 6, and one to get into melee with the monster). And then I could use my Attack Action to attack him.

Or, if there was a monster in Zone 8, I could move to Zone 7 (one Move), shoot the monster with my Blaster as my Attack Action, and then dive behind a rock for Cover (one Move), effectively splitting my Move Action around my Attack Action.

Really, that means that distances within a zone aren't kept track of at all. The basic idea is each zone is roughly a 20ft sphere - http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Zone - but as JK notes, the zone can vary a lot.

That's where ranges (Touch, Close, Long, Perception) come into play. A close range attack can attack anyone in Zone 5 without a penalty, and anyone in Zones 2, 3, 4, 6, or 10 with 1 Penalty (-2) to attack. It cannot reach anyone outside of those Zones. A long range attack can reach anyone in Zones 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, or 10 with no Penalty, and anyone in Zones 1, 7, 9, or 11 with 1 Penalty (-2), or Zone 8 with 2 Penalties (-5) to attack. Perception range attacks can reach anyone that the attacker can accurately Perceive--usually by sight--which requires him to pass a Perception check.

Captain Gavis
13th of July, 2011, 04:30
Do you want us to make the perception rolls in this thread?

Mercutio
13th of July, 2011, 04:34
As for aesthetics, it looks great. What program are you using to make the maps? Whatever it is turns out a really nice, clean map.

EDIT: I personally prefer them inline as opposed to attached. That's what I usually do for my games. I just make sure to shrink any pictures to 1000 px wide, at the widest, so that I don't break the board's tables or force people to scroll left and right.

SinbadEV
13th of July, 2011, 08:42
Made with http://donjon.bin.sh/ map generators, edited as layers in The Gimp.

Mercutio
13th of July, 2011, 08:56
Cool, which generator came up with a cave system? All I can seem to find are straight dungeons with corridors and rooms.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found the setting. Dungeon Layout Cavernous.

Captain Gavis
13th of July, 2011, 10:18
my roll seems to be broken

SinbadEV
13th of July, 2011, 10:19
hmmm... let me see if I can fix it... nope

You can't edit in a roll.

SinbadEV
13th of July, 2011, 10:21
Kródak's perception check [roll0]

Captain Gavis
13th of July, 2011, 20:25
was the problem then that I tried to edit one in?

Mercutio
13th of July, 2011, 20:29
I didn't catch what you wrote syntax-wise, but yeah, you can't edit in rolls. You also can't edit out rolls, as the forum will post a message in bright blue letters. As so.

Captain Gavis
13th of July, 2011, 20:50
Lol, yes that is what my previous inquiry was intended to ask. Forgive my half-awake brain I literally just woke up ^^

SinbadEV
13th of July, 2011, 22:47
@Mercucio: You have "Fearless" and "Nyctophobia", while semantically impossible I understand that the mechanics are separate and therefore the two are not contradictory within the confines of the game.

Just wondering if there is any interplay between them that I should be aware of as a GM.

Mercutio
13th of July, 2011, 22:58
Hmm. I didn't do that with any intent in gaming the system. Honestly I forgot that I had the Fearless feat. In this case, I would say Fearless should apply to everything EXCEPT his nyctophobia. He's afraid of nothing...but the dark.

SinbadEV
13th of July, 2011, 23:06
So, hypothetically speaking here of course, if there was a psychic ghoul who's fear inducing FX was to read your worst fear and use it against you... would you or wouldn't you experience the negative effects of fear? :D

If you ARE in the dark and therefore experiencing your Nyctophobia drawback, and encountered a ghoul with a generic fear inducing FX, would this negate your Fearlessness?

(note, such encounters would likely result in you getting one of those "the GM was a jerk" bonus dice)

Mercutio
14th of July, 2011, 00:35
In the first situation - If he successfully read Trav's mind and then created an Illusion of darkness or actually created Darkness through something like the Obscure FX, I'd say yes. And it wouldn't give me any extra Hero Dice.

In the second situation, I would say no. However, if you did want to do something like that, then I'd say it warrants a Hero Die for me.

Being scared of the dark wouldn't negate the fact that nothing else scares Trav. It's only the dark. I have a sort of loose background in my head that includes Trav spacewalking and accidentally being left behind, which is what caused his fear of darkness, but that as soon as he can see something, the fear goes away. That's why he has that lantern.

EDIT: This is where descriptors become very important. An Obscure effect that's a "fog cloud" wouldn't set off the Nyctophobia, but one that's "darkness" absolutely would.

Mercutio
14th of July, 2011, 03:23
I love pimpmygun, but I can easily get lost there.


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/883600/Energy%20dagger.jpg------------------------http://dl.dropbox.com/u/883600/energy%20sword.jpg
Energy dagger--------------------Energy Sword

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/883600/energy%20blaster.jpg--http://dl.dropbox.com/u/883600/rocketpack.jpg
Energy Blaster-------------------------------------------------Rocket Pack




And just for the hell of it a Hi-tech Super Soaker.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/883600/hi-tech%20super%20soaker.jpg

Captain Gavis
14th of July, 2011, 08:07
So, I just realized that my character is illiterate....and will have NO idea what his mission is since it has be WRITTEN for him to READ. lol

SinbadEV
14th of July, 2011, 09:51
@CaptainGavis... RE:Illiteracy, *Shrug*

Sooooo....

I know we didn't discuss posting frequency prior to to the start of the game, and I'm sorry about that... but maybe we should discuss our expectations... please don't take this as me being mad or rude or something like that, I just neglected to hash it out before the game started and am trying to word it clearly:

In a "encounter heavy" game where everything is waiting on one player to take his or her turn the game needs to keep moving... but I also understand that given time-zone differences, work and life schedules etc. frequency may suffer. So here's my inicial idea that will likely need refinement.

STEP 1
If it's your turn you have 24 hours to post before I even bother noticing, if you do not post within 24 hours I will post in the OOC thread indicating that its your turn and I would like you to post.

STEP 2
If you have not posted within 24 hours of notice having been given (total 48), then we'll "play through" the encounter round... any rolls you need to take (like the perception check for this round) will be taken by the GM on your behalf and you will be assumed to be "delaying your action" until all other players and NPC have taken their round actions. I will PM you at this point.

STEP 3
If it has been at least 48 hours since you were put on notice (total 72), and all other players and NPCs have taken their actions your character will act "autonomously".

You may choose at this time to:
A) Allow another PC to act on your behalf or B) specify an "algorithm" that the GM will use to decide how you act (aka; Always attack the nearest enemy with fireball attack, if I am within melee distance with an enemy use claw attack)

Specify this "default" method for you character to take actions in you character sheet.

STEP 4+

After each subsequent 24 hours after we have taken a characters turn on a missing players behalf and all other players and non-player characters have taken turns... we will take your characters turn again.

EXCEPTIONS:

If you know you are going to be unable to post for 72 hours, please let the group know beforehand so that we don't expect you to post and the "system" does not have to be put into place.

We can leave the game on hold for at least a few cycles but eventually the group will likely just assume you are gone and move on without you.

The above system would only apply to situations where we are relying on a player to post for the game to move forward... outside of encounters you should post at least once in every 7 days (so if your last post was last thursday, you should post again by next thursday)... or your character will be assumed to be going along with the majority.

Captain Gavis
14th of July, 2011, 10:14
I agree with this completely and will abide...too many games I have been involved in die due to previously super-active characters suddenly dropping off the face of the earth.

EDIT: depending on my work schedule I can usually post at least once a day from 7am to 9pm eastern time

Mercutio
14th of July, 2011, 10:25
Same here. Also, I kind of like the explicitly laid out rules. I might have to borrow them.

I know Lune works weekend nights, so his posting schedule is a bit different from the average poster, but he's pretty good about posting to keep games moving.

SinbadEV
14th of July, 2011, 10:32
Incidently, if there is information I want only one character to know what would the best way for that to be done be...

there don't appear to be "spoiler" tags, I could PM you but then it would be hard to keep track of, We could post in a special thread that only the GM and a Specific player were supposed to look at, I could attach text files to posts with your characters name on them etc...

Or I could just announce it officially and penalize players for acting on knowledge their characters shouldn't have.

Mercutio
14th of July, 2011, 10:35
That's up to you. You could turn our character threads private so that we can each only see our own (and now that they're hashed out and double-checked for accuracy, there's no need to keep them open). You could PM each of us. Or you could follow your last suggestion.

Personally, I tend to trust most gamers I game with not to act on OOC knowledge.

SinbadEV
14th of July, 2011, 10:47
Also: this weekend I will be away from a computer for the most part (friday afternoon through sunday) so if Lune hasn't responded before Friday at Noon EDT, We'll be "playing through" the round and PMing notice...

Also: Also: I guess under normal circumstances I would be responding with some kind of indication of what happened to your characters after each player does something... in this case neither of you did anything that required me to respond immediately... should I be posting anyway in cases like this?

Mercutio
14th of July, 2011, 10:50
I'm cool with however. I generally don't respond individually in PBPs. Different GMing styles at play.

Captain Gavis
15th of July, 2011, 09:51
I must admit right now I would be a bit on the lost side of where to proceed (having addressed the other two players with a question) other than to pretend to read my mission papers ^^

SinbadEV
15th of July, 2011, 20:35
I'm going to start crafting my next post on the assumption that Lune won't show up before the deadline so this is Orulu's Perception Check: [roll0]

edit: Wow... you people are stupid lucky... am I supposed to reward natural 20s on perception checks?

Mercutio
15th of July, 2011, 20:45
Only with "not surprising" us. At least that's what I read.

SinbadEV
15th of July, 2011, 21:07
Made an executive decision and decided to work Lune's absence into the story... post is up.

Mercutio is going first because he's the only one who know's how to play. In the future we'll determine initiative in a more traditional manner.

Mercutio
15th of July, 2011, 21:12
Nice. I'll get my post up soon.

SinbadEV
15th of July, 2011, 21:13
I forgot to post the map!

EDIT: the ?s are considered to be in zone 3.

Mercutio
15th of July, 2011, 21:22
Are the ?s where they're on the map (like I can see one enough to target it) or is that just kind of a placeholder since we can see the eyes, but not well enough to target the critters themselves?

SinbadEV
15th of July, 2011, 21:53
They are in heavy cover so you get "2 penalties to attack rolls" whatever that means (http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Cover)... they were hidden but you could perceive them so they gain no advantages beyond that you don't know what they look like, are armed with or how big they are.

Mercutio
15th of July, 2011, 22:03
Ah ha. Two Penalties is a -5.

http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Penalty

Mercutio
15th of July, 2011, 23:15
Shit, I went to advanced view to add the image, and it screwed up my rolls, damn.

Attack [roll0] vs Defense Resistance
Damage [roll1] vs Toughness Resistance

EDIT: Well, blow. That's a miss. Resistances are 10 + the applicable skill.

SinbadEV
15th of July, 2011, 23:30
defence resistence is 10+/- Mod right? so unless my NPC has a defence of -8 that's a miss right?

Mercutio
15th of July, 2011, 23:31
Yeah, definitely a miss.

EDIT: weird, when I went to edit that post, it HAD that bit about resistances, but when I looked at it here, it wasn't here. So I reloaded the page, and now it shows up...funky.

SinbadEV
15th of July, 2011, 23:41
so "Captain Gavis - Kródak" 's turn now.

Captain Gavis
15th of July, 2011, 23:52
All I can see is glowing eyes right? no confirmation of hostility?

SinbadEV
15th of July, 2011, 23:56
Do you have any psychic-type "sense motive" FX or anything? Otherwise no, they are just hiding in the brush at the edge of the forest looking at you...

EDIT: though, regardless of how they WERE disposed to you before... your buddy just launched some kind of ray of energy at them.

EDIT: Actually your "Shaman's Hood (4 EP)- Ultravision, Infravision, Ultrahearing, Communication Link" might give you some kind of advantages in perceiving them. Let me look up those FX but I'll tell you they are scaly and cold-blooded.

Captain Gavis
16th of July, 2011, 00:08
meta-game, I know this is a hack and slash so this is probably "just" a combat.
In-game, my character was sent on a mission he still doesn't know the details of and for all I know could be the capture (live) of what ever is in the bushes or even be something we need to rendezvous with. So, I'm thinking hold action and try to get the trigger happy gunman to hold off for a second.

EDIT: probably putting waaaaaaaaaay too much thought into this

SinbadEV
16th of July, 2011, 00:31
or you could use your precognitive abilities... just sayin...

Mercutio
16th of July, 2011, 00:34
The gunman is definitely trigger-happy. But eyes poking out of the darkness and looking at him are something that just scream "hostile" even if they are not actually hostile.

SinbadEV
16th of July, 2011, 00:43
@Captain Gavis - Kródak: If you're sure you want to withhold action post here or in the IC thread indicating this... just giving you a chance to change your mind while I figure out wht the NPC's are going to do.

Jackelope King
16th of July, 2011, 01:09
They are in heavy cover so you get "2 penalties to attack rolls" whatever that means (http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Cover)... they were hidden but you could perceive them so they gain no advantages beyond that you don't know what they look like, are armed with or how big they are.

Ah ha. Two Penalties is a -5.

http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Penalty

I'm currently in the process of cleaning up the wiki and installing links between most articles and relevant glossary entries wherever possible, so that you can quickly figure out what terms mean. I noticed there was no link for "Penalty" under "Cover", so I went ahead and added it. If you guys start coming across others where a link would be helpful, or even some glossary entries that are missing, please let me know so I can continue to expand the wiki and make it more player-friendly.

Mercutio
16th of July, 2011, 01:27
Will do, JK.

SinbadEV
16th of July, 2011, 01:30
@Jackelope King: yeah, that would have been helpful :D, glad to know your still working on it because there have been a few bad links here and there... will keep an eye out for them and try to fix any I notice from now on.

Not your fault but those wikia guys have got some ads that are making noise without asking my permission... man I hate that.

SinbadEV
16th of July, 2011, 02:08
looks like one hit... but my NPC's don't have a strength modifier because none of the Templates or Archetypes I based them on have them... how do I pick a strength modifier?

SinbadEV
16th of July, 2011, 02:15
Okay, we're gonna assume "0" then I guess. [roll0]

So, is that vs 5 or 15?

Jackelope King
16th of July, 2011, 02:26
Will do, JK.
@Jackelope King: yeah, that would have been helpful http://www.online-roleplaying.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley%20-%20grin.gif, glad to know your still working on it because there have been a few bad links here and there... will keep an eye out for them and try to fix any I notice from now on.
Thankya kindly.

Mercutio
16th of July, 2011, 03:09
15. That means that Trav now has 1 injury and my the next time my Toughness comes into play, it's a 14.

SinbadEV
16th of July, 2011, 03:32
Looks like lune showed up with a completely legitimate excuse, it's his or Captain Gavis turn, whoever posts first.

I will likely be away from a computer until sunday evening... but who knows, the camp I'm staying as technically has wireless and my phone is wifi compatible...

Lune
16th of July, 2011, 03:50
First of all, my apologies for being absent. I've been dealing with some health issues the last few days. I'm passing a kidney stone and it hurts like hell. The drugs I'm on also make me confused and its difficult to focus.

Heya, JK. Nice to see your face around here again. I was thinking of maybe asking Itches if he could put up a thread for you here since 3ebb is down likely forever. I certainly don't mind you looking over our game but figured a separate thread would help popularize your system in this forum and provide a central spot for Q&A.

Would you mind taking a look over my character for me? I can see what Mercutio is saying about the pricing on the Life Sense that I bought and wondered what the correct way to price it would be. Senses seems to work a bit different than other FX for pricing but I'm just not certain how it works. How would you build that sense?

I did make some changes to my character though to make up for the shortage of points but to keep the original concept intact. I lowered her regen to only 2CP for one. I want to keep the ability but don't want to spend as many points on it right now. I'll raise it later.

The only other question I have is why does "Strength" have an 8 next to it?
Check out the section here (http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Ability_Scores) under Enhanced Abilities. It is supposed to represent that without her genetically altered abilities (FX) her normal (non FX enhanced) strength would only be 8. In other words, she has the build of a schoolgirl but that belies her actual strength.

Question for Sinbad: If I keep the Drawbacks that I have and only gain the normally allowed 3CP from it now, could I gain the other 2 points from it later when we reach PL4 and PL5? Would the other players be ok with that, or does it seem unbalanced to anyone?

1. Orunlu's Attack + Damage > PL * 2 . You have +2 to attack and +5 to damage. (3 ranks of Damage + 2 Might). If you drop from Mighty 2 to Mighty 1, then it fits the PL cap as it becomes +2 to attack and +4 to damage.
Hm. I guess I didn't realize that the feats still counted against that cap too. Yeah, I guess I would do that: drop the might to +1.

Question for Sinbad #2: Are we going with 15 CP +25 "free" EP still? Or are we going with 20CP total?

Halo stuff...
Yeap, looks like I missed the equipment base cost. I think you miscounted the EP total though. With the change in effect for the Halo it would be:
Halo: 8
Skills (from Halo): 3
Life Sense: 3
Light Armor Plating: 6
Adrenaline Pump: 3
That comes to 23. Although it sounds like some of this might change due to changes in the previously mentioned Life Sense. I'll await JK's ruling on that. If I have points to spend I'll likely make the Light Armor Plating be Subtle. If I have too many points I'll have to limit something I've already put points in.

Regarding posting for us if we aren't here: I totally agree with your method, Sinbad. I'm typically more consistent than I was this week. I'll try to get a background up soon and that will give a good idea on how the character should be played for anyone who wishes to take the reigns.

Regarding my posting schedule: Merc is right. I have a very odd schedule currently. I work nights and weekends and even on my off days I keep my same sleeping schedule. Basically that means I'm nocturnal. I tend to post more frequently on the days that I work as I will post from work during dead times. That means that Thursday night through Monday morning are the times that I will be posting most frequently.

Now, to get over to the IC stuff...

Mercutio
16th of July, 2011, 04:06
I should make you all aware that I will be out of town away from home Monday through Friday (at the least), and I may or may not be able to update during that time.

Lune
16th of July, 2011, 04:07
I was hoping that our arrival would have worked out a bit differently and hopefully given us a bit of time for introductions but this works fine too. The reason I was hoping that was because I wanted to see how the other two characters reacted to Orunlu's Unnatural Beauty FX since it is always on and affecting anyone who can see her within her area. This way though, they get to see the darker side of her first and then react to how diametrically opposed she is in her normal state. That could be fun too.

Mercutio
16th of July, 2011, 04:15
Check out the section here under Enhanced Abilities. It is supposed to represent that without her genetically altered abilities (FX) her normal (non FX enhanced) strength would only be 8.I see where the disconnect is then. d20^ and the newest edition of M&M (only 4 years behind the times for what JK created way back in 2007) have done away with "scores" and "modifiers" for abilities. Ability scores ARE the modifiers now. So your ability score is usually a -1, not an 8. There's no real reason to have a score and a modifier be separate. The background "score" disappears because it's an unnecessary bit of info that doesn't affect game play. I was kind of hoping D&D would follow suit. And if you look at it from a design aesthetic standpoint, the ability scores stand out as the only "score" that's not actually a "modifier." Skill points are modifiers, feats provide modifiers.

And that's why adding +1 to an Ability costs 2 CP.

I believe that suggestion was something JK and I had a quite lengthy discussion on via the forums and/or AIM back then.

Lune
16th of July, 2011, 04:21
I remember. I understand now. In the example given in the link above they chose to list it as "10 (3)" which I took to mean that the character has an average score of 10 in that ability but because of his FX he gets +3 modifier to it. But I now understand that it means that the example character would have an extremely high strength modifier of 10 due to his FX and without that FX he still has an above average strength of 3.

Mercutio
16th of July, 2011, 04:23
Gotcha. Maybe something to be made clearer on the Wiki then. I can see how people coming to d20^ straight from regular d20 would make the same logical leap.

SinbadEV
16th of July, 2011, 04:33
I'd say of your build grants more CP then you can take advantage of until the PL of the campaign goes up then you would be able to do so at that later date.

I'd say 15+25 seems to be working for everyone else so you should stick with it.

Also, be nice to Marcus316, he's never "Played by Post" before but has lot's of RP experience.

SinbadEV
16th of July, 2011, 04:35
Just wanted to remind you that you all spent weeks together at the Thaumco facility and therefore could easily have worked out how you feel about each other prior to the start of the game... and I need to go now.

Captain Gavis
16th of July, 2011, 09:45
Just wanted to remind you that you all spent weeks together at the Thaumco facility and therefore could easily have worked out how you feel about each other prior to the start of the game... and I need to go now.

Alright wasn't sure if we had direct contact or it they picked us out of a crowd at random and this was our fist mission/encounter with each other.

Also had posted that I would hold my action ontill someone/I was attacked but I guess the internet ate it. Either way I will be putting a "script" on my character sheet in the eventuality that acting for me would progress the story (ex. the other two are posting quickly and I'm at work)

edit: if you notice in my post there is an * next to "space" this is because Krodak doesn't believe it exists he thinks if you fly too high you enter the realm of the gods and they kill you and send your corpse hurtling back to earth.

Mercutio
16th of July, 2011, 10:42
I added a bit to the end of my first post in my character sheet about contingency actions if I cannot post.

Captain Gavis
16th of July, 2011, 12:53
My basic code is up as well!

SinbadEV
16th of July, 2011, 23:24
posting from phone...
you may or may not have known each other prior to being put into teams but probably would have been in close enough proximity to form opinions of one another...

I remembered that I was going to start you all with one hero and one combat dice.

Mercutio
16th of July, 2011, 23:37
Cool.

Technically, you get one combat dice after rolling initiative and gain more as you successfully do the things in your Roles (like Interpose for Defenders). All combat dice disappear at the end of combat.

Hero Dice you get one at the beginning of a game session, and then can earn more when Complications come into play or when GM's do squirrelly things.

SinbadEV
17th of July, 2011, 01:02
Cool.

Technically, you get one combat dice after rolling initiative and gain more as you successfully do the things in your Roles (like Interpose for Defenders). All combat dice disappear at the end of combat.

Hero Dice you get one at the beginning of a game session, and then can earn more when Complications come into play or when GM's do squirrelly things.

Yeah... that's totally what I meant... carry on.

a 22 is totally a hit too, don't have access to my notes on this phone so yeah... you're all waiting on me now until I get back to my computer I guess?

SinbadEV
17th of July, 2011, 03:19
sorry, misread the last post, 19 is a hit but a 9 does no damage:

Lizard 3 takes a non injuring hit from Krodak.
Lizard 1 Attacks Traveler: [roll0] for [roll1] vs 11/14 (-1 for 1 injury)
Lizard 2 Attacks Traveler: [roll2] for [roll3] vs 11/14 (-1 for 1 injury)
Lizard 3 Attacks Onrulu: [roll4] for [roll5] vs 11/10 (unless combat form alters these stats)

SinbadEV
17th of July, 2011, 03:37
Okay, now... because all three lizards were already in attack range does that mean that they get to take a second attack action?

Mercutio
17th of July, 2011, 04:03
Well, that's one more injury Trav. At least his armor finally did something to prevent a hit.

Edit - Yes, you can have each lizard attack again.

Lune
17th of July, 2011, 15:35
Damage is vs. Toughness, yes? Combat form doesn't alter her toughness but her armor does. Admitadely I still don't fully understand the injury system.

Also, I finshed putting up a my character background. What do I win?! ;) Oh, and I have contingency actions posted. Lemme know if anything is unclear.

SinbadEV
17th of July, 2011, 22:27
okay, so a hit on Orunlu but no injury due to her armor... whatever that means.

Also also, I realized that it should be Traveler's turn right now... I'll take the lizards second actions after he takes his turn or tells us that he's planning to delay his action.

Mercutio
17th of July, 2011, 22:51
Cool. I'll post Traveler's actions now.

Mercutio
17th of July, 2011, 22:59
Balls, balls, and triple balls. :shit::dead:

Traveler can't hit the broad side of a fricking barn, even using a Combat Die. The ORP dice roller continues to hate me in any game that I am not GMing. I'll just have to take solace in the fact that the die roller desperately wants me to kill players in my games...:evil:

SinbadEV
17th of July, 2011, 23:14
Lizard 1 Attacks Traveler: [roll0] for [roll1] vs 11/13 (15-2 for 2 injury)
Lizard 2 Attacks Traveler: [roll2] for [roll3] vs 11/13 (15-2 for 2 injury)
Lizard 3 Attacks Onrulu: [roll4] for [roll5] vs 11/13

Mercutio
17th of July, 2011, 23:16
Whew, two more injuries prevented by armor. That's more like what I was hoping to see. That's what a tank/defender is supposed to be seeing in combat situations. Of course, they're also supposed to be a tad more effective on offense.

Tashalar
18th of July, 2011, 03:40
Traveler can't hit the broad side of a fricking barn, even using a Combat Die. The ORP dice roller continues to hate me in any game that I am not GMing. I'll just have to take solace in the fact that the die roller desperately wants me to kill players in my games...http://www.online-roleplaying.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley%20-%20evil.gif
Not funny. No, not funny at all! :tsk:

Captain Gavis
18th of July, 2011, 08:23
since I held my action do I now go after all have gone in the order? or do I maintain my position?

SinbadEV
18th of July, 2011, 09:43
in my understanding you take your new location in the order... so it would be Lune's turn I think...

Mercutio
18th of July, 2011, 09:45
As far as I understand, delaying in d20^ works the same as in D&D, in that you take the new delayed place in the order.

Lune
18th of July, 2011, 12:04
Sinbad, I discussed this with Mercutio in his game but hadn't talked to you yet. My personal preference is to let the DM roll for me where I just give my bonus in my OOC part of my action. The reason I prefer doing this is that I, as a player, do not have access to all information.

For instance in my last action I posted that I want to perform a Gain Combat Advantage (http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Gain_Combat_Advantage) maneuver. That is an opposed check. It would be my characters check with a +2 modifier against my opponent's check at whatever modifier they have. Since I don't know their modifier and you would know both I typically prefer the DM makes the role. Also there are a lot of things that depend on how the turn goes. For instance if I get a crit then that incurs an extra roll that wouldn't normally be included in the first post.

If you would rather not do it, I understand. Just let me know your preference, I guess. My action in my last round hasn't been resolved yet.

SinbadEV
18th of July, 2011, 12:15
Huh, I hadn't been familiar enough with maneuvers when you posted that for me to realize I needed to do anything... what bonuses do I need to apply to my roll?

Essentially I will do whatever rolls I think I need to do... so if you have an action that requires adjudication I am happy to do the rolls, It's just that in this case I didn't realize it was needed (opposed checks are not something I'm used to)

Lune
18th of July, 2011, 12:48
Well, I may have been mistaken as I didn't think I get a Penalty but I guess I do. Its an opposed maneuver check but I think that I may incur a penalty on it. So basically because my bonus is equal to the penalty its a straight d20 roll for me and for them it is a d20 +Str modifier. Unless they have anything else that modifies their maneuvers like feats or something.

Marcus316
18th of July, 2011, 13:29
After some very serious digging, I figured out this whole "maneuver" opposed check thing.

Gain Combat Advantage imposes 1 penalty (-2) to the attack roll (and only the attack roll). The enemy gets to roll either Reflex or Might (whichever is higher). From the wiki:



Might (http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Might): Your ability to apply muscle to lift and resist pressure, usually to avoid an enemy maneuver (http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Action_Module:_Maneuvers). The DC to overcome your Might is 10 + your ranks in Might + your Strength (http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Strength) score.
Reflex (http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Reflex): Your ability to react quickly to danger or in response to another event, such as avoiding an enemy maneuver (http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Action_Module:_Maneuvers). The DC to overcome your Reflex is 10 + your ranks in Reflex + your Dexterity (http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Dexterity) score.

So, as Lune said, d20 vs d20 + Ref/Mite.

EDIT: Wait, I'm still confused. :P Someone will need to give more details on how this works, especially since I will be using this maneuver heavily. :)

Mercutio
18th of July, 2011, 20:24
Maneuver sequence in plain English (I hope).

An attacker rolls an attack (Melee Attack = Melee Attack Skill + Strength - Penalties) vs the Defense of the defender (Defense = ranks in Defense Skill + Dexterity + 10). Assuming he hit, then the attacker rolls Strength (d20 + Strength) against the defender's Might (Might = ranks in Might + Strength + 10) or Reflex (Reflex = ranks in Reflex + Dexterity + 10).

It's like Attack + Damage. You attack the bad guy, then roll the "damage" which in this case is the Maneuver. Except instead of inflicting damage, you inflict some sort of bad tactical situation on the bad guy, ie Blinding him for one round.

Captain Gavis
18th of July, 2011, 20:27
Sounds like 3.5 Grapple rules *shiver*

Marcus316
18th of July, 2011, 20:51
The Gain Combat Advantage maneuver is an opposed check ... which roll is the opposed check? The Attack Roll or the Effect Roll (or both?!?)? I would assume the Effect Roll to be the opposed check, making the following sequence:

1) Attack (d20 + Melee Skill - Penalty) vs passive Defense (10 + Dex + Defense Skill)

2) If the attack hits, Effect Roll (d20 + Str[unless modified by Feat/etc.]) vs active Resistance (d20 + highest of Ref or Mite)

But I'm inserting a lot of my own logic in here ... it's definitely not clear on the wiki ...

Mercutio
18th of July, 2011, 20:55
Well, except the attack of opportunity.

And not really. It's just like any other attack. A regular attack - attack to see if you hit someone. Then you roll damage and compare to Toughness to see if you inflict any injuries.

Attackers roll all the dice.

Punchyguy has a strength of 10. He has a Melee attack bonus of 10. Wimpydude has a Defense of 5. His Toughness is 5. Wimpydude's Might is 0 and his Reflex is 2

Punchyguy hits Wimpydude. Punchyguy rolls a d20 and adds 10. He compares the result against Wimpydude's Defense + 10 = 15. Any result of 15 or higher on Punchyguy's attack means he connects. Punchyguy then rolls his damage (in this case his Strength score) = d20 + 10. He compares his result to Wimpydude's Toughness + 10 = 5. Any result of 15 or higher means Punchyguy inflicts at least an Injury on Wimpydude.

Punchyguy wants to knock Wimpydude back, but not actually hurt him. The beating will commence once Wimpydude is far enough away from Punchyguy's girlfriend (this is a Knockback). Punchyguy rolls 1d20+0 (3 Penalties = 10, so 10 - 10 = 0) and compares to Wimpydude's Defense resistance of 15. A result of 15 or more means Punchyguy connects. Punchyguy then rolls his Strength (1d20+10) and compares to Wimpydude's Might or Reflex. Wimpydude's Reflex score is higher, so Punchyguy hopes his Strength roll is 12 or better. If it is, Wimpydude goes sprawling on his back.

Personally, I think 3 Penalties to the Attack is rather harsh. I don't think any of the Maneuvers seem like they need more than 1 or at most 2 Penalties to the attack. Hell, Knockback seems extraordinarily overpriced for what it does. Gain Combat Advantage, which is a far better Maneuver tactically, is priced at the low, low price of 1 Penalty. The only reason Knockback might possibly be better is if you Knockback an enemy over a cliff or something. But rather than impose a -10 penalty to the attack, I think it would be fairer to require a success by 10 or more.




Marcus, I'll bring that up with Jackelope King via FPM or AIM chat. I'm fairly sure you've got the right of it.

Marcus316
18th of July, 2011, 23:10
Ok, so if I understand correctly, an "Opposed Check" is simply a check who's DC is decided by the opponent's stats, rather than having a static DC set by the GM. Is this correct?

If so, Perhaps "Opposed Check" should be defined somewhere prominent (as I have yet to find a decent definition while scouring the Wiki :) )

SinbadEV
18th of July, 2011, 23:50
Okay, let's get back to Lune's specifics:

Orunlu attempts to gain combat advantage on lizard 3:

Orunlu has a Melee attack of +2 (which based on my reading of her char sheet already takes into account her STR) and a Gain Combat Advantage imposes 1 penalty (-2) so her attack is: d20

if she beats the target's defence she will have to make a maneuvers check vs lizard 3s might-save or reflex-save. so she rolls a d20+2 vs whichever is higher the might+10 or reflex+10 of my lizard, whichever is higher... right?

so, presumably this is something that the character could roll and the GM could advise of success... so you roll d20 for d20+2 and I tell you if you connect and if the maneuver is successful.

SinbadEV
18th of July, 2011, 23:51
@Marcus, I didn't let the other characters buy back CP with their EP so it wouldn't be fair to let you, could the rest of you look over his sheet and see if there's any way he could lose that 1 CP without breaking his character?

Marcus316
18th of July, 2011, 23:57
No worries, I'll just drop one Skill point and find some more equip (or not, depending on my mood).

EDIT: Added an actual weapon instead of the +1 in Technology. :)

SinbadEV
19th of July, 2011, 00:21
Alright... I'll start thinking about warping you in... porting you in... beaming you in... I need to decide on a good word for telepotaion across time, space and universes and reality matrices.

Captain Gavis
19th of July, 2011, 00:35
I believe the term "gate" might work

Marcus316
19th of July, 2011, 01:02
Test rolling, I guess (I have no clue how forum rolls work):

d20+2+5

EDIT: LOL, more research to do ... someone explain the tag for me? :P

Marcus316
19th of July, 2011, 01:06
[roll0]

EDIT: Got it.

SinbadEV
19th of July, 2011, 02:47
Okay Marcus, youcan post that you've gated in at approximately the location that the others appeared at and you will be flat footed for the round you arrive in. You may immediately take one non-movement action (and a 6 seconds worth of "free actions"... like yelling "hey don't shoot me") at the time you appear and then you will get your first "real" turn when everyone else has taken another turn.

You have the same backstory as the rest of the group except that for some reason it took you longer to be transported then the others (given that, at MOST, only about 60 seconds worth of game time have elapsed, this shouldn't be too jarring to the game at this point)

Marcus316
19th of July, 2011, 03:51
Just a reminder quote from earlier:
Just wanted to remind you that you all spent weeks together at the Thaumco facility and therefore could easily have worked out how you feel about each other prior to the start of the game... and I need to go now.

Does this apply to me, too? If so, it's a lot easier for me to NOT get shot.

Also, I note that we all hve some sort of Comm Link. That mean we can communicate through them, or is there another specific use for them? :)

Just trying to work out my entrance.

SinbadEV
19th of July, 2011, 04:09
Huh, they'll probably recognize you from the facility at the very least... I was thinking you all left at the same time but Marcus's character arrived later due to some technical thing that I won't bother to figure out the details of... but in that case why weren't all of you wondering where that other guy was?

Okay... so... Finn didn't exist during the time he was gone, but now that he's here he's always been here, except he just got here now... the reality matrix coalesces into a single timeline where it makes sense for him to be there.

also:
Yeah, it seems like you all have some kind of comm-link or other, let's just assume they are compatible and attuned to the same "frequency" or whatever allowing you to communicate or whatever.

Marcus316
19th of July, 2011, 04:46
I have arrived! *insert evil laughter here*

I have assumed I arrived somewhere just beside Kródak.

SinbadEV
19th of July, 2011, 04:49
that's a perfectly logical assumption, welcome to the wacky wild world of OnlineRoleplaying.com!

I think its
Lune/Orunlu's turn as soon as we work out weather she managed to gain combat advantage last turn.

Mercutio
19th of July, 2011, 08:37
Welcome aboard. I suspect I won't get a proper chance to check over your character until next week, but at first brush it looks to me like you grok the system pretty well.

SinbadEV
19th of July, 2011, 08:48
first blush.... grrrr...

incorrectly phrased idioms make me angry.

spelling and grammar issues I'm fine with... but an incorrectly phrased idiom means you are using a phrase you don't understand...

You only managed to retain my respect by using grok in a complete sentence... though I would say that one would "nearly grok something" as opposed to "grokking something pretty well"... which leads me to believe you haven't actually read Stranger in a Strange Land yet.

Sorry, I get weird when I'm bored and the internet isn't showing signs of listening to me.

Mercutio
19th of July, 2011, 09:38
I assure you that's a spelling/editing fat finger error, not a misused idiom. I am quite aware of first blush being the correct term.

I teach writing, have a BA in English, and a Master's in Writing, just in case you were wondering/questioning my ability. When posting on forums, etc, I don't generally go back to edit things unless I see them right away.

Also, I have not only read Stranger in a Strange Land, I have read everything Heinlein has written, with my two particular favorites being The Number of the Beast and Time Enough for Love, and Stranger in a Strange Land coming in third on that list.

Technically, "nearly grok" is wrong, too. You either grok or do not grok. But grok has actually entered the zeitgeist and is even used by non-geeks, usually under the meaning "understand" rather than "know/feel/understand/experience/share" that grok embodies.

In any case, I find the character of Jubal Harshaw far more sympathetic than Valentine, something that Heinlein must have intended, as Jubal shows up in three other novels, all in the Pantheistic Solipsism multiverse concept that embodied later Heinleinian literature.

Indeed, the idea of Pantheistic Solipsism, although not used under that name, was also explored by Philip Jose Farmer, particularly in the Wold Newton universe concept. Farmer is another author whose entire body of work I've read. They join ERB, Robert Howard, HP Lovecraft, and Stephen King (and Shakespeare) as each have their own whole bookshelf.

:)

Although first brush has a weird sort of elan, in that it mixes "brush with death" and "first blush" into an interesting whole. Interestingly, the eggcorn "at first brush" has gained traction enough that it's been indexed in at least a few phrasal dictionaries indicating its existence. Indeed, Language Log, a blog of linguists/etymologians/language documenters, has used "first brush" specifically in the same way I have, to indicate not a cursory glance (as "first blush" actually means) but a first meeting or a first pass-over of something like a document.

In any case, "first brush" was an error in spelling/editing/fat-fingering, and not an idiomatic mistake, although it has sparked a far more interesting internal debate for me.

SinbadEV
19th of July, 2011, 09:54
I think you just summarily out-foxed me.

We should swap good reads accounts so I don't accuse you of having not read a particularly popular work written by one of your favourite authors again. http://www.goodreads.com/SinbadEV

I'm not sure which Heinlein liked best but I haven't read the other two you mentioned so it looks like I'm still playing catch-up. The door to summer was particularly fun from a "ha, he thought we'd have robots and flying cards by now but didn't even conceive of computers" perspective.

Mercutio
19th of July, 2011, 10:24
I know about Good Reads, and I think I may have an account (I'm not sure, actually), but if I do I'm not sure I've used it much.

My father keeps written ledgers of every book he's read, with the date he finished and a simple 1-5 scoring system (high is better), and he's been doing it since the 1960s. He's got a bookshelf of just ledgers. It's insane.

I think I may have to look at Good Reads again. I've used GCStar (link (http://www.gcstar.org/)) and cataloged all the books/cds/dvds/blu-rays/video games I own, but the number of books I've read far exceeds that number. I wish I had the discipline to keep a ledger like my dad, and maybe Good Reads would do that. The main problem is that I'd have to go and enter, literally, thousands of books. And I'm not sure I'd even remember them all.

Mercutio
19th of July, 2011, 10:26
Hmm. It appears I don't actually have a Good Reads account.

SinbadEV
19th of July, 2011, 11:28
Looks like we've lost Mercutio for a few days while he enumerates the thousands of books he's read in his lifetime...

Mercutio
19th of July, 2011, 11:35
Hah!

Starting tomorrow, I'll be with my best friends since I was about 12 (we get together once every few years and spend a few days catching up, reminiscing, drinking, gaming, and just hanging out) and that's when I'll really be indisposed.

SinbadEV
19th of July, 2011, 11:40
Awesome... always nice to get back together with old friends. We won't begrudge you for delaying our game... well, not too much anyway.

One warning about GoodReads... for the love of your sanity avoid the discussion area... not only do they like or dislike books that you dislike or like... that would be fine... its that they do so for ALL THE WRONG REASONS!!!

For example: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2976

I've never wanted so hard to dive through the internet and stab people in the face!... and I don't even think this is Shel Silversteins best work... I had no desire to defend it until I saw morons discussing why its bad... and then I feel bad for being on the side of the morons who say its good!

Mercutio
19th of July, 2011, 11:43
Thanks for the heads-up. I think I'll just use it to try to account for all the books I've ever read.

Lune
19th of July, 2011, 19:18
There is only one person that I know that I would trust to stand up to Mercutio when it comes to grammar and libraries full of books read. That person is my wife. There is no person that I have found that loves reading more than her.

Lune
19th of July, 2011, 19:44
Yeah, I have no idea why I have such a hard time with the dice roller here...

SinbadEV
20th of July, 2011, 01:36
I'd recommend posting rolls here if they've failed in the IC thread...

Lune
20th of July, 2011, 02:30
Gain Combat Advantage: [roll0]
Attack 1: [roll1]
Attack 2: [roll2]

SinbadEV
20th of July, 2011, 02:43
18 is a hit vs lizard 3's defence but both attacks miss

for your convenience I'll roll your gain combat advantage "maneuver" now d20+2 right? [roll0]

and its a miss

edit: I guess that makes it Captain Gavis/Kródak's turn now.

Captain Gavis
20th of July, 2011, 03:12
If I don't move in this round can I attack twice with my FX? The wiki says you can take two single action actions and my spells are only single action I think...

SinbadEV
20th of July, 2011, 03:19
That seems to be the consensus... its breaking my poor D&D paradigm'ed brain too.

Captain Gavis
20th of July, 2011, 03:23
sweet! double your pleasure, double your fun...and by fun I mean crushing wind attacks ^^

Edit: I think the dice of this forum are possessed.....19/14 for both attacks and damage

SinbadEV
20th of July, 2011, 04:13
can someone confirm that lizard 3 (the one Kródak and Orunlu have been hammering on) have not taken any injuries yet?

Marcus316
20th of July, 2011, 04:16
Looks like that's the case.

Orunlu made a maneuver that failed, plus two failed attacks.
Kródak made one attack that hit for no damage.

Now there are two blasts heading towards Liz 3.

SinbadEV
20th of July, 2011, 04:29
Kródak:
both 19 and 14 are hits, attack 1 causes 1 injury, attack 2 causes no injury.

It's Mercutio/Traveler now.

Captain Gavis
20th of July, 2011, 04:57
I definitely chafe from the whole "I can hit you, and you have no damage reduction, but I can't harm you" thing in this system

Marcus316
20th of July, 2011, 05:07
Hmmm ... the system does draw out the battle a fair bit, it seems. I think I'll have to dig a bit to see where the catching point is ... *off to read the wiki*

SinbadEV
20th of July, 2011, 05:45
every time you hit something it becomes easier to hit... so I feel like it should balance out in the long run.

In my mind it seems like these "hits that do no damage" are like my weapons hitting the opponents armour... which it realistic. It just drags things out if the GM has decided to attack his party with mediocre defence and really high armour.

Mercutio
20th of July, 2011, 11:54
Go ahead and roll attacks for Traveler. I don't have reliable enough access to do it.

SinbadEV
20th of July, 2011, 13:14
Mercution continues to press his attack against lizard 1:

[roll0]/[roll1]
[roll2]/[roll3]

SinbadEV
20th of July, 2011, 13:18
both hit and cause injury, but the natural 20 on the first attack... does that mean +5 to the damage roll so 23 rather then 18?, if this is the case then lizard 1 is also stunned.

Marcus316
20th of July, 2011, 20:33
Yes, I believe it does add +5 ...

SinbadEV
20th of July, 2011, 22:32
Mercutio, are you going to do your IC post or did you intend for me to do that too?

Mercutio
20th of July, 2011, 23:23
You can do IC, or just skip IC and resolve with the OOC post you posted.

Also, yes, a natural 20 adds 5 to the damage.

SinbadEV
21st of July, 2011, 01:13
so yeah, lizard one is stunned and has two injuries.

SinbadEV
21st of July, 2011, 01:23
So that makes it my turn:
lizard 2 FX aided Maneuver against Mercutio [roll0] for [roll1] vs might or reflex, failed

lizard 1 attacks Mercucio [roll2] for [roll3] 11/13 (15-2 for 2 injury), failed
lizard 2 attacks Mercucio [roll4] for [roll5] 11/13 (15-2 for 2 injury), causes one injury

SinbadEV
21st of July, 2011, 01:46
Thinking I need to keep better track of statuses
Status Summary(in round order):

Next Up: Marcus316 - Daniel Finn, No status effects
Lune - Orunlu, No status effects
Captain Gavis - Kródak, No status effects
Lizard 1, 2 injuries (stunned only lasts one round)
Lizard 2, No status effects
Lizard 3, 1 injury
Mercutio - Traveler, 3 injuries


Seem right?

Marcus316
21st of July, 2011, 02:41
My Enhanced Movement (http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Enhanced_Movement) (Speed) gives me 5 moves in my Move action. I use one to get to the melee and one to engage Lizard 2.

My remaining 3 moves are going to be used up with my Moving Feint (http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Moving_Feint) feat, while I try to perform a Gain Combat Advantage (http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Gain_Combat_Advantage) maneuver (with Finesse (http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Finesse)).

That makes my Attack Roll versus Lizard 2 Defense: [roll0]

If that succeeds, I then raise my left hand towards the opening gained from my feint and attempt to knock the Lizard off-balance.

Effect Roll versus Lizard 2 (highest of)Might/Reflex: [roll1]

EDIT: Well, I think I may have reached in, but the Lizard shut me down. :(

Marcus316
21st of July, 2011, 02:45
Exhausting my Combat Die to try and beat the Effect again:

[roll0]

EDIT: Can't catch a break ... until next time ... ;)

SinbadEV
21st of July, 2011, 03:01
DOUBLE-FAIL (15 breaches defences but 9 means maneuver fails... and 6, well :P)

Next up Orunlu (unless I'm mistaken)

SinbadEV
22nd of July, 2011, 04:06
This is me noticing that Lune has not posted in 24 hours, if no post appears in the next 24 hours we'll assume he is delaying his action and play through the round.

I reposted the "posting frequency rules" as a new topic, if you want to discuss them we can use that thread.

SinbadEV
23rd of July, 2011, 01:54
alright, no luck for Orulu... Captain Gavis - Kródak up next.

Marcus316
23rd of July, 2011, 03:02
Hmmm ... even with souped up Melee combat form and given two attacks per round, Orunlu has about a 46% chance to injure a target (provided the target is not yet injured).

Gonna have to figure out the best way to deal with this aspect of the system ... currently not much of a fan on the double-roll ... (runs off to examine possibilities).

EDIT: I'm assuming a target of the same PL as we are, of course.

Captain Gavis
23rd of July, 2011, 09:13
ok Rolls failed again in the main thread so here they are

attack [roll0] [roll1]
damage [roll2] [roll3]

SinbadEV
23rd of July, 2011, 09:32
hit for no damage and a miss... I guess that makes it the lizards' turn... going to try to find something to eat for dinner now though.

SinbadEV
23rd of July, 2011, 11:58
alright

Lizard 1 attempts to gain combat advantage on Trav [roll0] then [roll1] vs might or reflex
Lizard 1 attacks Trav [roll2] then [roll3] vs toughness

Lizard 2 is distracted from its primary taget and focuses instead on Daniel
Lizard 2 attempts to gain combat advantage on Daniel[roll4] then [roll5] vs might or reflex
Lizard 2 attacks Daniel [roll6] then [roll7] vs toughness

Lizard 3 attempts to gain combat advantage on Orunlu [roll8] then [roll9] vs might or reflex
Lizard 3 attacks Orunlu [roll10] then [roll11] vs toughness

SinbadEV
23rd of July, 2011, 12:02
L1 vs Trav
MISS
HIT FOR 7 so total of 4 injuries now and stunned next turn

L2 vs Daniel
MISS
HIT FOR 4 so Daniel takes an Injury

L3 vs Orunlu
MISS
MISS

SinbadEV
23rd of July, 2011, 12:09
and now, I believe, Marcus may take his turn.

Lune
23rd of July, 2011, 13:50
I think I figured out why the rolls show up that way in the forum. If you hit "preview post" it will do that instead of showing you the outcome of the roll. I think it must be a form of cheating prevention. I guess I could see how it could be abused so that makes a good reason for it. So basically, just don't hit preview post.

@Sinbad: I wouldn't worry too much about the 2 standard actions per turn thing. The reason it was decided to do that was because itterive attacks were removed from the system. In D&D when you level up you get more attacks when your BAB hits +6, +12 or any other itterive thereof. In d20^ you don't get these bonus attacks. Instead you raise the effectiveness of the attacks you do get. Still though, people want to be able to do more in their turn. Thus the system of 2 standard actions and one move action was designed. It scales pretty well but I think we are just dealing with how it works out at this level.

I am, however, pretty underwhelmed at Orunlu's effectiveness. Or more accurately her lack of effectiveness. I think I have just had really poor luck with my rolls. It makes it increasingly hard to roleplay a character that is supposed to be a fierce combatant with this poor of a performance. I think I'm just going to play it off that she considers these foes very difficult and a great challenge to overcome.

Lune
23rd of July, 2011, 13:54
Ugh, these dice hate me.

SinbadEV
23rd of July, 2011, 14:03
Actually, with the one injury that second attack actually hits and causes injury... technically it was Marcus's turn so I'm not sure why you were attacking... I guess it doesn't really matter what order y'all take your turns in as long as all the PCs have had turns before the NPCs take turns.

Lune
23rd of July, 2011, 15:56
You control the order our characters actions happen in, but can you expect everyone to post in initiative order? With people's real life schedules I think that is a bit too much to expect for a PBP environment.

SinbadEV
24th of July, 2011, 01:19
I HAD expected people to post in initiative order, but if y'all would rather just do it this way I can definitely see it as more conducive to play by post.

Marcus316
24th of July, 2011, 03:09
I don't think it should matter when a player posts. If there's an order of moves issue to be resolved, initiative will be considered. Otherwise, we continue to fight, right? :)

Daniel's attacks:

Attack 1: [roll0] for [roll1] vs Toughness
Attack 2: [roll2] for [roll3] vs Toughness

EDIT: The dice REALLY hate me. :P

SinbadEV
24th of July, 2011, 03:10
Sure, why not... incidentally the dice hate you and you miss.

Lune
24th of July, 2011, 11:54
I'm about ready to get a mod in here to fix this gods forsaken roller. I call shenanigans.

SinbadEV
24th of July, 2011, 13:48
Heh... yeah, the dice really seem to hate you guys.

How about for every 5 rolls you make under 10 you get a combat die, for every 5 1s you get a hero die?

Lune
24th of July, 2011, 15:01
Nah, I dont want any favors over what the enemies get. I'm groovy.

Mercutio
24th of July, 2011, 20:01
Yeesh - Trav's in some serious hurt.

In any case, I'm back.

Marcus316
24th of July, 2011, 22:17
No favours needed. We'll figure out what we need to do.

Captain Gavis
24th of July, 2011, 23:29
I think it's just stacked probability against us....with these rolls in any other d20 game we would be doing damage and moving onward...this system just makes it harder to damage your opponent since it's a double DC

EDIT: also during my study of the rules to find where I am going wrong with combat I found this out "Perception Range attacks do not require an Attack roll, but still require the Attack Action, if not otherwise specified." cited from http://d20advanced.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_Action so I have been hitting with EVERY one of my attacks since my force attack is perception range!!!!!!

SinbadEV
25th of July, 2011, 01:37
lol, well that should probably help a little*. On the bright side, if I kill you all off in the first combat Thaumco can just send in a salvage/recovery team, resurrect you all again, add another 70 years to your term of indentured servitude and send you on an easier mission... actually could be fun to role-play that even.


(* A lot)

Captain Gavis
25th of July, 2011, 01:46
Shall I then roll all my damage rolls I should have had for "missed" attacks?

Also suppose we hate the way our character works (hypothetically) or just have ADD, would we be allowed to re-build aspects of our characters after a resurrection?

SinbadEV
25th of July, 2011, 02:34
RE: dying... I don't think its going to happen...

I would say it would be too confusing to reroll all of your damage checks for missed attacks (due to changing the flow of the IC posts) but you can have that combat die you spent back.

Captain Gavis
25th of July, 2011, 04:57
never spent a combat die that was Marcus and his arm flailing

SinbadEV
25th of July, 2011, 05:53
how many rerolls are we talking about?

Captain Gavis
25th of July, 2011, 06:00
it wouldn't be rerolls it would be checking to see if damage was done on my attacks that missed...but i get that it would be confusing to ret-con the damage in.

SinbadEV
25th of July, 2011, 06:03
I'm thinking y'all are hurting pretty bad, if any of them would have caused an injury we'll apply that injury next time you attack in addition to whatever you actually do on that turn.

Lune
25th of July, 2011, 12:06
IMO we are fine. We have a healer, 2 of us aren't even damaged. I just chalk it up to a string of bad luck. I think we'll be fine. I doubt the enemies would be so folly as to continue attacking a foe who collapses anyway and that doesn't seem too likely yet either.

SinbadEV
25th of July, 2011, 13:36
IMO we are fine. We have a healer, 2 of us aren't even damaged. I just chalk it up to a string of bad luck. I think we'll be fine. I doubt the enemies would be so folly as to continue attacking a foe who collapses anyway and that doesn't seem too likely yet either.

Don't give the DM ideas. :D

Trav's hurt because he decided to play meat-shield and drew all of their attention for a few turns. I'm sure you'll be fine.

Lune
25th of July, 2011, 13:55
If by ideas you mean attacking Orunlu back then I'd welcome it. Some spreading of love right now would be good for the team and Orunlu has a self heal so it would be ideal. I doubt the baddies would think to attack her though considering how completely inneffective she has been thus far. They could finish the fight, walk away, take a nap and she would still be wiffing above their heads as they take a nice nap.

SinbadEV
25th of July, 2011, 20:12
Nope, meant ideas like NPCs finishing off players' characters when they lose consciousness.

SinbadEV
26th of July, 2011, 00:17
Krodak causes an injury with the second hit, nothing from the first.

Lizard 3 now has 3 injuries

guess we're just waiting on Trav now?

Mercutio
26th of July, 2011, 01:42
It's my turn?

Roger that. Will catch up the last week of posts and get to posting.

SinbadEV
26th of July, 2011, 01:48
Heh, we've switched to "Players Take Turns" "DM Takes Turns" model to keep things flowing... I think that's all you've really missed.

Lune
26th of July, 2011, 19:36
So I think I'd like to use my boost ability but not certain how it works...

SinbadEV
26th of July, 2011, 23:23
So I think I'd like to use my boost ability but not certain how it works...

Adrenaline Pump: Boost 3 (3 points/rank to benefit all Damage FX, -1/rank Reduced range) = 6 EP


By my reading your boost is that it adds a persistent +3 to all of your damage for a close ranged attacks as long as you have that piece of equipment equipped. Have we not been taking that into account either?

edit: I was wrong.

Mercutio
26th of July, 2011, 23:56
He has to spend one action activate it, and then he gets an extra die to roll, taking the better of the two rolls. If he does nothing but spend two actions this round, he gets 2 extra dice for next round. If he spends this whole round and one action next round, he gets 3 extra dice.

Boost doesn't add bonuses, only extra dice to a dice pool that he can then pick and choose from.

SinbadEV
27th of July, 2011, 00:25
Marcus316 - Daniel Finn, No status effects
Lune - Orunlu, No status effects
Captain Gavis - Kródak, No status effects
Mercutio - Traveler, 3 injuries
Lizard 1, 2 injuries
Lizard 2, No status effects
Lizard 3, 3 injuries

Lizard 1 Pursues and Re-Engages Trav
Lizard 2 attempts to gain combat advantage on Daniel [roll0] for [roll1] vs might or reflex
Lizard 2 attacks Daniel [roll2] for [roll3] vs toughness
Lizard 3 attempts to gain combat advantage on Orunlu [roll4] for [roll5] vs might or reflex
Lizard 3 attacks Orunlu [roll6] for [roll7] vs toughness

Marcus316
28th of July, 2011, 00:16
LOL, maybe it's the time of day I post? What do I win for such rolling skillz?!?

Bring it on, Lizard Dudes! I am the anti-luck nexus!

SinbadEV
28th of July, 2011, 21:05
LOL, maybe it's the time of day I post? What do I win for such rolling skillz?!?

How about fore every 20th 1 you roll we add a die to that pool?

Or how about we allow people to roll 2d11-2 in place of d20s...

SinbadEV
28th of July, 2011, 21:15
[roll0][roll1][roll2][roll3][roll4][roll5][roll6][roll7][roll8][roll9][roll10][roll11][roll12][roll13][roll14][roll15][roll16][roll17][roll18][roll19][roll20][roll21][roll22][roll23]

Captain Gavis
28th of July, 2011, 21:29
I think 2d11 - 2 is a REALLY bad idea since you can get a 0 (1+1-2=0)

SinbadEV
28th of July, 2011, 21:33
Pros: geometric distribution means a much higher likely-hood of a roll between 8 and 12 then anywhere else.
Cons: Lower chance of rolls above 12, chance of 0

SinbadEV
29th of July, 2011, 03:14
In case we've lost track, its the players' turn now, need moves from T, K and O

Mercutio
29th of July, 2011, 07:22
Yep, definitely lost track on my end. I'll post something tonight, most likely.

Mercutio
29th of July, 2011, 12:20
Finally a hit. Geez. Here's hoping the damage stuns, too.

SinbadEV
29th of July, 2011, 13:22
20 does an additional injury and stuns (woot!)
Lizard 1, 3 injuries, Stunned

Lune
29th of July, 2011, 15:45
I would like to hereby congratulate Merc on the first "good" role we have seen thus far. ;)

Also, its kinda funny that our initials are TKO.

Lune
29th of July, 2011, 16:02
Also, I'm not sure boost does what I thought it did. I mean, basically it would allow me to save up attacks now to be used later? Why would I not want to take my attacks now?

Perhaps it would work better in a situation where an archer is taking an aimed shot that takes a round to setup. Or like Goku from Dragonball Z taking 3 episodes to do one single blast that is very powerful...

SinbadEV
29th of July, 2011, 21:25
well orunlu doesn't do any damage...
but Kródak does an injury and stuns the opponent so:
Lizard 3, 4 injuries, stunned

now I guess its my turn again.

Hey, Lune, a gain combat advantage of 17 vs your might or reflex succeeds by 5 right? So you are flat footed vs Lizard 3?

Captain Gavis
29th of July, 2011, 22:36
Yay! I get a combat die!

EDIT: can a combat die be used for a third attack?

SinbadEV
29th of July, 2011, 22:41
No, but I believe you could use it to reroll your second damage roll there.