Dilemma: Sci-Fi 1, or Sci-Fi 2?

[Shakespeare]

Due to problems beyond my control, I might be losing control of my Mass Effect game before it even begins. Whilst deeply frustrating, I've decided to bounce back from this potential loss by planning a backup science-fiction game to keep my game number up at three.

Which of the following two would be more likely to generate interest on this site?

Star Wars: Set between Episodes III and IV, the game would follow the adventures of a group of heroes of any and all walks of life. Jedi would be rare, and anyone playing one would be inexperienced. The rule system would be West End Games (revised and expanded).

Dark Heresy: Following the stories of a group of Inquisitor Acolytes, the game would be gritty, dark, and blend a mixture of mystery with hard combat. Characters could be of any Career Path, so long as it's not already taken by another player. I'd be making use of the Dark Heresy rulebook, and would allow players to pull things in from the various source materials (provided it was approved); if the game escalated, I'd begin pulling in material from Ascension when it became appropriate, too.

Again, this isn't a notice that Mass Effect is definately dying (I'm waiting for feedback from the two players I have who didn't bail on me, and seeing if I get an e-mail back from a third potential play, before I declare that), but rather a preparation question, so that I can quickly and efficiently start up a replacement should things go sour.

Opinions?

[Shakespeare]

By the by, it's a common response to my suggesting Star Wars West End Games as a potential system that many players don't know the system, or have the books. This isn't a huge problem, since I can walk one or two players through the basics, provided they're fast learners; I won't do this with everyone, however, since too much can go wrong in a game where no-one knows the rules.

[AoM]

Didn't see this thread before I posted in the Changeling Acquisition thread. If you're dead set on doing a Sci-Fi game before running C:tL, I'm willing to do either.

I don't have the SW WEG rules, but I am a quick learner and I do like to keep my characters very simple when it comes to their rules. I wouldn't mind playing a padawan, but would cede the rare force sensitivity to someone who really was dying to play a jedi.

For Dark Heresy, I have looked over the rules, and I like the setting, but I don't own the corebook and again have not played it before. If you ran this, I'd play a priest career path. A big and beefy type who doesn't mind wading in amongst the verminous filth of chaos with a large maul as his weapon and his faith in the Emperor as his shield.

[Explosive Cheese]

Crap, AoM took the words outta my mouth.

I'd love to play a SW game, but I don't yet have the rules. However, I will soon be in a position to buy some new RPG material, and while I have a few in mind, I could include the SW WEG rules on my list. But even after I read from it, I'll still be completely new and probably in need of a walkthrough.

I'd also very much like to play an inexperienced jedi/padawan, but I could let AoM or someone else have be force-sensitive.

I will play a jedi in one game on here eventually though. That is a promise.

[Shoelip]

Damn the best Star Wars games I've played were between 3 and 4, which was actually just one game really, though I played another one that lasted for about long enough for the combat we started the game in to finish before the GM flaked on us like he had done once already (he then came back again and flaked on us a third time with a Marvel heroes game). Anyway there was one Star Wars game I played that took place between 3 and 4 that was totally awesome... and in fact now that I think about it was the only one I played in which the GM didn't flake out and vanish on us besides the one game I got bored of due to it being intended to be pure hack and slash. So yeah, the main point is that I've had good experiences with Star Wars games set between 3 and 4. It's got that slightly gritty feel that made the original series great where you don't see lightsabers everywhere and people who aren't Jedi and everything that entails can really be important. Unfortunately I don't have WEG either. :( Maybe I could join your Mass Effect game. I never even wanted to play the game, but that's just because I don't really like being on rails in my RPGs. Or Bioware's writing. And if you want to discuss my opinion of Bioware please send me a PM instead of responding in the thread so I don't get banned for being off topic.

[Shakespeare]

Yeah, sorry about Changeling; I'm still eager to start a Lost game on here, but I hadn't counted on losing Mass Effect. In the interest of maintaining my venture into sci-fi territory, I intend on starting one of these two games before I look back towards Changeling. But it might still happen, so don't lose all hope on it yet.

Star Wars is really easy as a system, once you get used to the flow of things. In essence, your character's skills and attributes are represented by a number of D6 dice (the only dice type used), ranging from 1D to 13D (and, very, very rarely, higher). When you're called to do an action, you roll the dice, total them up, and compare with the difficulty. There are, of course, more rules too, but that's the heart of it.

Dark Heresy is also simple. It's mainly just a case of rolling D% and hoping you get equal to, or lower than the Characteristic number you've got. Modifiers apply, making tasks easier or harder.

Oh, with regards to Jedi: you'd either be an untrained Force-user, or Padawan with no real training. This would be represented by the fact that your Force Skills (the three separate Skills that represent your ability to manipulate the Force) would be low. When you make a character in the rules, you usually get the option to place some of your attribute dice (of which there are 18 or, for some species, less or more) in your Force Skills; but if you do this, then your attributes will be weaker.

So, in summary, how much training you have as a Jedi/Force-user is up to you, but be aware of the fact that attributes will drop the more training you have. So it's normally safer to play a complete fledgling, or a Force Sensitive with no training at all, rather than begin with any Skill in the three areas: Alter, Sense, and Control.

One last note for Force-users: combat is deadly, and Vader is terrible, as the universe dictates. Having him and his Master hunting you will be no picnic, and no punches will be pulled on my end. This might seem unfair, but it's not -- this system was designed to be true to the Star Wars universe, and thus Jedi with high Force Skills become more deadly than most other characters (not more important, just more deadly overall); that they were being hunted is one of the main ways of detering constant Force training, and made sure that the players were cautious about how open they were with their powers.

[Shakespeare]

Also, can I just ask people to make it clearer what they're voting for? I assume that all of the above, thus far, are for Star Wars?

Addendum: I've got a scan of my Star Wars book for anyone who wants to look it over.

[dabocim]

if all else fails and mass effect crashes I would like the star wars game but I'll need to get the book off amazon

[Ergonomic Cat]

I am always interested in Star Wars. I am also always interested in smiting the infidels with superior firepower.

For SW I have a plethora of concepts - wookiee sharpshooter, spice-runner/gambler, disaffected ARC Trooper, ex pit fighter turned wannabe bounty hunter, and rootless ex-nerf herder looking for a reason not to take a dirt nap.

So I'm easy. :)

Would this game have the usual Shakes post length?

And I have the WEG main book somewhere but I'd take a PDF too.

If you haven't played WEG the biggest thing to remember is that failure is always an option. :)

[Shoelip]

I was voting for Star Wars yes. I was thinking maybe a doctor type character if no one wants to play one. A doctor who was trained at the imperial academy. Since the empire doesn't have all that much use fr physicians as far as I can tell he'd have ended up in research, met some female intern and hit it off only to find out that she was using him to get close to the project he was working on when she confronted him with the data she'd stolen. He realized he was helping to do something terrible (some sort of biological weapon maybe?) and decided to flee, which she helped him with, but now he's on the run from the Empire and isn't sure if he's going to be hunted down for his knowledge, or if it wasn't important enough to worry about him.

[Shakespeare]

I added a poll to this thread, so I can begin working towards a definate decision. On the list is also Changeling: the Lost; this is because I know that people are eager for it, but I didn't know if they were as keen for it as they would be for a science-fiction game.

And thus, the polls shall decide.

Addendum: Yes, my usual post-limit expectancy would apply, as would my character application criteria. So players would be expected to post around 250-350+ words per post, especially if they expected to receive bonus experience points/character points (which I hand out to encourage flavour and detail); I'd expect applicants to provide me with statistics, physical and personality descriptions, background information, and a sample post involving the character.

[dabocim]

Again if mass effect has to go then I'm all for star wars. I'll start working on a character description/background just in case.

[Draconius Barrett]

I have both WEG and WotC versions of the core rulebook. They seem pretty similar, so that should help the people who don't have the WEG version.

I vote Star Wars.

[AoM]

My vote's for changling, if there can only be one.

[Ergonomic Cat]

I have both WEG and WotC versions of the core rulebook. They seem pretty similar, so that should help the people who don't have the WEG version.

I vote Star Wars.

*blink*

I....

You....

They're.....

I'm going to counter with WEG has a fairly unique system that WotC tried to adapt to d20 as much as possible.

[dabocim]

They are in no way similar except for the fact that they're both called star wars the roleplaying game

[Croaker]

I vote for Changeling as well!

[Shoelip]

They are in no way similar except for the fact that they're both called star wars the roleplaying game


Oh well, so much for my hopes of having an easy time with this. I may be able to play if I have a long time to learn the rules or if I don't need to understand them all before we start.

[Shakespeare]

You will need to know most of the rules, but you've got another week at the least to look through the core rulebook, which I've linked a fair few players here to.

Like I said, I'm willing to help folk adjust, provided they've at least put the effort in to learn the basics. And for those of you who still need the book, PM me.

I'll be concluding this poll with the passing of the weekend. After that, I'll make a thread dedicated towards character creation, application, and rules discussion. Then I'll request a forum.

[Shakespeare]

Since it's currently 5-to-2 in favour of Star Wars, I think I'm safe in assuming that I've found which game will be replacing Mass Effect. That is, of course, unless we get a sudden surge in Changeling or Dark Heresy in a manner of 48 hours.

And so, I'm going to open this forum up to questions regarding the rules, which I'll try to answer in the interest of speeding up people's rules skimming. So, if you're curious, ask away here.

It might also be a good idea to voice your concept intentions, so we don't get a couple of identical character designs. This is a good place for me to note that I will only be accepting a maximum of two Force Sensitives (three at a push, and that's only if the third character concept blows me away). Any such characters should be forewarned that they are in for a very dangerous game, however, as such characters are either recruited by the Empire, or killed by their troopers.

Any questions, throw them down here.

[dabocim]

I had a decent idea for a jedi but there are already two people who have voiced their interest in that so I'm going to play some kind of bounty hunter. Are there any types of craft skills in this version

[Shakespeare]

There are indeed; check the Technical attribute's skill list in the main book. It explains in there how to repair and modify items.

[dabocim]

Alright. thanks!

[Pulse495]

Hey Shakespeare, know I've outlined this briefly to you through other means, but just thought I'd sum up my character concept for you.

Current idea is to play a former Imperial Loyalist, career military, born and trained on Bastion and a distinguished student of the Bastion Military Academy. Upon chance discovery during a routine medical of latent force sensitivity, he murders his doctor and flees, covering his trail by falsifying orders placing him on detached duty, hoping to be lost among the Imperial Beauracracy as he struggles to come to terms with what this shift means, and how the change in his life circumstances means he can no longer honour his oath to the Empire and bring about Order through Discipline. Not an overtly evil man, in mind or thought, he is and has been trained to be ruthless, but is not without compassion. He will follow orders that are questionable, trusting in his superiors judgement and believing that the ends always justify means.

Hope that gives a brief idea for you.
Pulse

[dabocim]

That gives me a pretty decent way to actually work in my story I was thinking of playing a bounty hunter employed by the empire to hunt a certain jedi (never mind that he's really not) when she caught up to her target the first time she realized who her target actually was, a trained imperialist. She surveyed the military man man from a distance contemplating her next move. She in the end could not bring herself to kill the man who's only crime was realizing that he could connect with the force. Having failed her mission she had to flee the empire and become a ghost. Woo I actually have something that makes sense this time as an end note she may possibly be force sensitive we'll see I want to leave it open to other players for now

[AoM]

My character will begin as a force sensitive with absolutely no training nor a sound concept of what it means to be a jedi. She is the only daughter of a Nar Shaada crime boss, one with a wealth of territory and enterprise, but who has recently begun to feel the pressure of the Hutts trying to move in on his territory. She is a streetwise, wheeler and dealer, who makes a name for herself under an alias on the swoop racing tracks. Her family strongly disapproves of her penchant for "slumming" in the lower levels of the Nar Shaada hive city, and putting herself at risk on the racing tracks - but the force has always been with her, even if she didn't know it. Now that the Empire is hunting down force sensitives, she may be in even greater danger than she could possibly imagine. Will fate intervene on her behalf? Or will rival Hutts, bounty hunters, or even Vader himself make short work of her?

[Ergonomic Cat]

So by my reading we have a former imp officer turned Force Sensitive, a former imperial medic, and a former empire-aligned bounty hunter who may be force sensitive.

Edit: And an FS wheeler dealer.

Is the officer turned FS going to be a saber fighter or a more subtle type? Presumably the bounty hunter will be a combat monkey. I think I'm likely to go with a smuggler/gambler/slicer, unless we have a distinct need for more combat ability. If that ends up being the case, I'll stat up the former ARC trooper, who would be a heavy weapons expert.

AoM: Are you looking at her as a face type character, or more of a criminal type?

[dabocim]

Every crew running from the empire needs a slicer

[Explosive Cheese]

I won't have time to look into the rules and character stuff deeply until Sunday (probably Monday actually, but I may manage by Sunday), but I'll try and put something together now...

I'm thinking of doing a former clone trooper (yes clone, one of the last survivors). When Order 66 was given, he refused to kill the jedi he was with, and when the rest of the squad did so any, he killed them all in a fit of righteous anger (luckily they were focused on killing the jedi, so he had an opening). So he was forced to go on the lamb, and he's been on the search for force sensitives to help protect, and hide from the empire. This may lead him to the group.

If we're too combat heavy though, I may want to try creating a smuggler instead.

Shakespeare, I know that this isn't enough, I'll try and get more. However, my Star Wars knowledge is actually fairly limited, so my character may not be deep enough for your standards even once I'm done. Hopefully I'll manage to find the material on Wookiepedia.

[dabocim]

I have to take a little bit of issue with this. Chances are that at least one of the clones was screwed up. They were genetically altered so they were incapable of disobedience. But like I said a few were probably screwed up

[Explosive Cheese]

I know (from Star Wars: The Clone Wars, the animated series), that clones are capable of disobedience. First of all, despite identical genetic stock, each clone is unique, same as with other people. Second, there is an episode where a clone commits treason, covers it up, and then flees when he is discovered. So yeah, they could disobey. And they were capable of there own individual feelings and beliefs.

[dabocim]

I on the other hand discount anything that happened in the clone wars shows/movies because it was George Lucas' best attempt to kill star wars

[Ergonomic Cat]

Clones had varying levels of obedience. The ARC troopers were grown entirely without the obedience modifications, and the first batch were trained by Jango himself (technically I think the first first batch failed miserably and were mostly destroyed). They're used in situations where independent thought is required, and are generally the baddest of the badass. ARC Troopers eventually started training other ARC troopers, and eventually trained normal clones to be independent, which sometimes meant disobedient. The majority of the important clones on the Clone Wars cartoon and animated series are either new ARC troopers or trained by them (Gree, Cody, etc).

Also, the particular trainer the clones had seems to make a difference, although most of that information is based off EU stuff like the Republic Commando series, which I think has recently been overruled by G-Canon in the Clone Wars series running now.

Amusing, EC and I have put up, basically, the exact same two concepts. ;) So, EC, you want the clone or the slicer? Cause I can take the other. :)

Or I could go with the Wookiee sharpshooter/scout. Cause every good SW game needs a wookiee.

[dabocim]

Except cody actually was genetically altered I remember because in the book on episode 3 he was considering disobeying order 66 but he couldn't find willpower to disobey

[AoM]

AoM: Are you looking at her as a face type character, or more of a criminal type?

More face than criminal. Someone who's had to deal with being tied to criminals all her life, but is trying to rise above it. Being a criminal character while also force sensitive is a quick path to the dark side, and I don't want to have that happen.

[Explosive Cheese]

Amusing, EC and I have put up, basically, the exact same two concepts. ;) So, EC, you want the clone or the slicer? Cause I can take the other. :)

Well, EC ;), I think I'd like to take the clone. I know a bit more about clones than smugglers (read: I actually have some minute amount of knowledge about clones).

Or I could go with the Wookiee sharpshooter/scout. Cause every good SW game needs a wookiee.

Yes. Yes it does. :)

[Shakespeare]

I shut my eyes for a few hours and a sudden wave of replies comes in. :P

Firstly, thanks to everyone that've put up their concepts -- they give me ideas, even if three of them are Force Sensitive (which means that one of you will need to re-think their connection to the Force, since two is my maximum at the moment without seeing character sheets).

Regarding the clone: they are capable of disobedience, but all were bred from the start with Order 66 embedded in their brain. It's an order that not all are aware of, but all feel the compulsion to follow. That being said, genetic defects aren't impossible (this is Star Wars, after all), and so the concept isn't an immediate no. The only other problem is that clones age at an accelerated rate (or, at least, that's what I read in the Force Unleashed Saga Edition rulebook), so he'd be older than he actually was -- whether this effects him physically is unlikely, but it's something to consider.

So, in summary, if you like the concept, go with it -- all of you -- but keep in mind two things: firstly, I'll be denying one Force Sensitive concept if all three come my way, and also that I might be asking people to change some of their character or their concept itself based upon current concept intake -- if everyone's combat savvy, but no-one can fly a ship or charm their way out of a paper bag, then someone's going to have to change, or else your group's life expectancy will be short.

Given that tonight is the cut off point for this debate (regarding what game to run), I think it's safe to assume that Star Wars is the victor. Thus, I'll start a proper thread for it in the other forum, with rules regarding character creation and the like.

One last thing, Dabocim: you might not like the Clone Wars series (and they weren't the best admittedly), I suggest you don't ignore them altogether, especially not IC, since I might be pulling material from them.

[dabocim]

Mine was only potentially force sensitive and wouldn't actually know until a lot later in the game. I also know how to astrogate

Also the clones from what I understand were only accelerated to adult hood

[Shakespeare]

I'm only repeating what I've read somewhere.