D&D 3.5: Conspiracy

[dabocim]

This is a story I've been working on for a while it's almost like a free form in the point that there aren't any limits on what your character could be alignment wise. The basic premise is set around 1999 DR the spell plague is no longer a threat, and there is some amount of prosperity under the aristocratic government. Yet in this seemingly prosperous government there is corruption that makes the rich stay rich and the poor cannot escape their poverty. The other thing I want to try with this campaign is letting difference of opinion happen and not influence the pc's decisions and not have to compromise.

[Captain Gavis]

I am interested and would like to hear more about this campaign

[Shoelip]

The description is rather vague.

[Captain Gavis]

where in Faerûn will this be taking place?

[dabocim]

The description is rather vague.
I didn't want to give to much away but yeah I didn't put quite enough in. The main starting point I have is that there is an extremist group that is trying to bring down the government and they claim to be able to bring the spell plague back where ever they want it. The players are either going to start out militarized or by being part of the extremist group in some way. The first portion of the story is going to take place somewhere on the dragon coast but will transition into Amn fairly soon

[Captain Gavis]

so will you be running two games essentially (terrorist/counter terrorist)? I tend to play the lawful sort so I would definitely be in for the counter side.

[Shoelip]

Just how extreme are these extremists? Like, retardo we're going to target civilians, which will somehow gain us their support extreme? Or just extreme as in really dedicated?

[dabocim]

so will you be running two games essentially (terrorist/counter terrorist)? I tend to play the lawful sort so I would definitely be in for the counter side.
yeah the way I was thinking of running it would be to have two ICs one for the terrorist group and one for the counter terrorist group

and the extremists are just extremely devoted and smart, but won't hesitate to use fear as a weapon

[Captain Gavis]

what System would you be using? I assume D&D but what edition?

[Shoelip]

Well fear sure, but I mean, would they attack helpless civilians just to "send a message" despite the fact that the main message they're supposedly fighting against a corrupt regime for the sake of the oppressed majority? Because that would be stupid.

[dabocim]

3.5

[Shoelip]

Do the people think of them freedom fighters or bandits?

[dabocim]

Well fear sure, but I mean, would they attack helpless civilians just to "send a message" despite the fact that the main message they're supposedly fighting against a corrupt regime for the sake of the oppressed majority? Because that would be stupid.
Not necessarily killing civilians but for example assassinating a leader in a public place without much difficulty showing their power and what the current government is doing wrong

[dabocim]

Do the people think of them freedom fighters or bandits?
They are more like freedom fighters but the government will try to show them off as bandits

[Shoelip]

Ok, sign me up for the valiant freedom fighters serving a just cause! Maybe I should be lawful good too to counter Captain Gavis's lawful good character... well, maybe...

[dabocim]

I don't think the freedom fighter would be lawful...

[Shoelip]

Why not? Laws that serve only benefit the wicked while causing the good to suffer can not be allowed to stand. It's a mockery of everything my character's holy oath stands for.

You do know lawful doesn't necessarily just mean arbitrarily following whatever someone in power says is a law right?

[dabocim]

Yes true but generally lawful means conforming to society but in this instance it would work just fine

[Shoelip]

Well I'm not sure I'd want to play a lawful character anyway. Maybe a a valiant gentleman rogue who's really corny and totally gets all the peasants to swoon over his bravado. That would make a good impression for the rebels.

[dabocim]

I swear in my mind this story keeps trying to come out as assassin's creed

[Shoelip]

Strange. Assassin's Creed's story isn't really very similar to this concept.

[dabocim]

not exactly but it has a vaguely similar back story. Assassins taking down the government because they don't like the way its being run but there's so many differences I don't think ubisoft will try to sue me for plagiarism

[Shoelip]

Assassins? Since when are they assassins?

[dabocim]

they're not there just happen to be specialized assassins in the extremist group

[Captain Gavis]

Ok, sign me up for the valiant freedom fighters serving a just cause! Maybe I should be lawful good too to counter Captain Gavis's lawful good character... well, maybe...

I would more than likely Play more toward the Lawful neutral set up. allows you to play the dog of the state with out the whole morality issue.

[Captain Gavis]

Why not? Laws that serve only benefit the wicked while causing the good to suffer can not be allowed to stand. It's a mockery of everything my character's holy oath stands for.

You do know lawful doesn't necessarily just mean arbitrarily following whatever someone in power says is a law right?

benefiting all of man kind with out a direct intent to destroy or uphold the established regime is pretty much the definition of neutral good

[Shoelip]

Oh boy. Here we go. It's alignment discussion time! :p

The established regime is just whoever currently has the most power. If someone else gains the most power they become the current regime. It's not lawful good to support an evil regime simply because they're "lawful". If anything that's lawful neutral.

[Captain Gavis]

by the same note it is not lawful to act against the current law body such as joining an anti-establishment group, that would be chaotic. If you do it to help man king it is chaotic good, if you do it cuz it seems like a good idea at the time you enter the realm of chaotic neutral, and if you do it just to cause anarchy you are chaotic evil.... and if you read my first post for the day that's why I said a supporter of the current regime would be Lawful neutral... unless the regime is in fact good (not noted in the GMs description) one. With the vagueness of the plot it is too early to decide on alignment.

As a final note: there ARE certain circumstances wherein a LG player would support and operate within a LE regime. such is the case when choosing between two evils the LG character would use the laws against it self to bring about change (i.e. arresting corrupt officials/divesting them of power to instate a "gooder" official in their place)

[Shoelip]

You keep identifying the abstract concept of order which is what "Lawful" in D&D means with "laws" that people make in order to maintain order. What if you support a law that causes chaos? Are you lawful or chaotic? Being Lawful Good isn't about supporting whatever regime happens to be in power, it's about believing in an orderly style of good. This regime did inspire people to rebel against it, so how orderly can it be?

[Captain Gavis]

quoted from the D20 SRD

"Alignment is a tool for developing your character’s identity. It is not a straitjacket for restricting your character. Each alignment represents a broad range of personality types or personal philosophies, so two characters of the same alignment can still be quite different from each other. In addition, few people are completely consistent."

alignment is subjective no point in arguing about it

[Explosive Cheese]

Hope you don't mind me throwing my two-cents in here, but what I've understood of the system (with admittedly limited experience), is that it's just a personal guideline really, not any kind of rule. Which is why I hate them restricting classes based on alignment - with a sufficiently good backstory, I bet you could create a Lawful Barbarian.

So I can see a Lawful Good resistance fighter. Someone who strives to create order, to follow the rules (if not the laws), and to do what is right.

Also, I pose a question to you - Is an OCD character that follows his whims chaotic or lawful? I mean, he needs to make everything in his life neat and tidy, but he's not exactly predictable, except in his habits. My point is that there's different kinds of order, in different parts of life.

[dabocim]

That's when you start blending alignments and come out with the oxymoron lawful chaotic. But the way I see it is a lawful character attempts to obey the laws that fall within their good/neutral/evil realm whereas being chaotic is a way to change how you act within g/n/e. For example a chaotic good character might go to far in some sort of interrogation and a truly lawful character would not necessarily go far enough to make the subject of interrogation talk. However in the end it really is just a simpler way to start describing your characters personality in base form

[Ergonomic Cat]

quoted from the D20 SRD

"Alignment is a tool for developing your character’s identity. It is not a straitjacket for restricting your character. Each alignment represents a broad range of personality types or personal philosophies, so two characters of the same alignment can still be quite different from each other. In addition, few people are completely consistent."

alignment is subjective no point in arguing about it

Except that there are spells that detect it, items that don't work if it's not there, gods that require it, and entire classes that can't function if it changes. ;)

The system is fine as it goes from that quote. It's when spells like "Detect Good" and such enter in that it gets wonky. I tend to basically ignore alignment. It's really an beginner/intermediate RP tool. A beginner needs something to hang a hat on - CG means you do good, but don't follow laws if they're in your way. Okay, good, I can do that. Intermediates start to buck the alignment trend, and say "Why can't I be a LG necromancer, or a CG Druid?" Then eventually you get past it, and just play a character. ;)

[AoM]

Agreed. The alignment system is dumb. Only useful for starting arguments about semantics. The spectrum of ethical standards cannot be pigeon holed into nine clear-cut categories. The spells, items, deities, and classes that depend on adhering to these alignments should be judged by the DM on a case by case basis.

[dabocim]

that's the great thing about roleplaying you can change the rules however you see fit

[Shoelip]

And this is part of the reason I don't like Bioware games.

[dabocim]

because the rules are fixed?

[Shoelip]

Because the rules and narrative are fixed and very linear and any sort of creativity on the player's part is utterly pointless. It's like playing through a premade module that has very vivid descriptions of things and is well organized but is otherwise rather poorly written with a GM that has no imagination or creativity whatsoever and refuses to stray from the suggested hooks and paths..

[AoM]

Shoelip, that's the nature of the video game medium. It's an interactive story, but the story has already been written. I'm interested though in the games that you feel do measure up to your expectations. I enjoy non-linear rpgs as well and wouldn't mind hearing about some that I may have missed.

Personally, I thoroughly enjoyed dragon age and SW:KOTOR - and I will always love the Baldur's Gate series, which I thought had a LOT of side quests and interesting diversions from the main plot. I don't necessarily mind that I was kept onto a main quest because when I switch on a video game I'm not asking for the same flexibility as I would from my buddy DM sitting across the table.

I don't think that's what most people are asking from BioWare or the other rpg makers.

[Captain Gavis]

so back to the subject of the thread...when will this game be starting?

[dabocim]

as soon as I have enough players, so far I only know of three people who are interested

[Captain Gavis]

What is your target number for participants?

[dabocim]

at three on each side at least

[Captain Gavis]

I would be willing to change sides to the spellplaguers so we can start that side at least

[Shoelip]

Are the two groups of PCs going to come into conflict often? I've never participated in PvP in a normal pencil and paper style RPG (as opposed to a CRPG) but I haven't really read many good things about it. I don't see it working that well with D&D outside a tournament setting.

[dabocim]

not too often and when they do come into conflict it will be mostly outside of combat I do want to try it at some point but I have to make sure that the player characters don't get killed
Edit: There's no need to switch captain gavis I have a few potentials in mind

[Captain Gavis]

just so I can continue mulling over my character concept could you tell us what level we will be and a little more about the setting?

[dabocim]

You'll basically be new recruits so level 1. There has been a bit of improvement in the world so there are very basic pistols/rifles, (bows are still more practical). The war between the two factions has been going on for about 15 years, and it still would appear to be a stalemate. the outside faction is weaker but they have the support of the people. The government is much stronger and has a massive military force. the government will randomly execute people to show their power but the outside faction(which I need a name for (suggestions welcome)) showing their infiltration abilities are nearly always there to interrupt the executions

[Shoelip]

I'm thinking of a charismatic bard type character who'd be good at trickling information to the resistance. Perhaps he's even managed to get on the good side of a few nobles or at least their family members.

As for the name, if they're a group claiming to fight to free whatever land this takes place in from it's corrupt government then they'd probably have the name of that land in their name. Otherwise they'd probably;y be something like :The People's Liberation Army" or some other generic rebel group name.

[Ergonomic Cat]

The Alliance to Restore the Republic?

[dabocim]

I really need that face palm emoticon
edit: found it http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Oz3q-Mq_LfY3jM:http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee357/starkiller_94/Facepalm.jpg

[Shoelip]

Maybe there could be two groups with nearly identical agendas and names that for whatever reason hate each other.... On second though. it was funny in The Life of Brian, but I don't see it being quite as humorous here.

[dabocim]

yeah that would just get confusing. So as to character restrictions you can use any class/race from this srd (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/home.html) as long as you meet the prerequisites.

[Shakespeare]

At dabocim's request, I'm here to inquire about the game. I know very little about the world this is set in, however, so I'm kind of at a disadvantage.

[dabocim]

I'm using Faeurun as a starting set but I'm modifying it very heavily. Following my own time line which I should post here in a minute. But their is no longer the threat of the spell plague as it just vanished in 1546 DR approximately 200 years after it first began to ravage Toril. Soon after the disappearance of the spell plague a empire rose and conquered all of toril. The empire prospered on faeurun for about 300 years when the aristocracy that now rules over threw them

[Captain Gavis]

yeah that would just get confusing. So as to character restrictions you can use any class/race from this srd (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/home.html) as long as you meet the prerequisites.

So then http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm would be ok to use too?

[dabocim]

that one works as well but you could be a psionic class/race if you wanted

[Shakespeare]

I've no idea where Faerun is; I used to have the book for it, but it got given to a friend of mine who was far more D&D obsessed than I was.

[Captain Gavis]

Faerun is best described if you have ever read the forgotten realms books (such as the Drizz't Do'Urden series by R.A. Salvatore). Simply put it is idealized medieval society if magic and the gods were all proven to exist. Clerics are pretty much everywhere, magicians are harder to come by in some places but in others they hang out in cabals/guilds/families. Pretty much it would be D&D if the classes/characters were representations of real people (minus power gamers)

[dabocim]

If Shakespeare decides to join than I need one more besides the one other potential any ideas on someone I should ask

[Captain Gavis]

Explosive cheese usually is a campaign glutton (Sorry EC I only kid)

[dabocim]

I think cheese is a little busy with all the other campaigns

[Explosive Cheese]

Yeah, I don't think I'm gonna be able to do this one right now... I'm even considering dropping outta Shakespeare's Star Wars game because I don't have much capacity and I'd like to save that capacity for playing in a game where I could be a jedi.

Also, I'm not yet a 4E player. Now that I'm living in a University town, and I hope to start playing face-to-face, I might pick up the material and learn it, but honestly, I love Pathfinder so much that I'm not sure it's worth it.

Still, this campaign idea is interesting - I like the idea of running concurrent adventures with the 2 groups, and having them meet up at various points. Also, there's some good opportunity to investigate moral and ethical questions, which is neat. But I really need to save my limited time for a SW game (possibly with Shakespeare), and if one ever gets up, an Avatar game. [/ramble]

Hope you guys have a fun time. I'll probably lurk. ;)

[Shoelip]

Hey don't forget the game/s you're GMing!

[Explosive Cheese]

Don't worry, I haven't. I'm giving grim till tomorrow to come back, then I'm starting to advertise for a replacement and composing the next post.

Edit: Sorry for the slight thread hi-jacking dabocim. Don't worry, it won't happen again. :)

[dabocim]

Huh? I didn't even notice I was Hijacked on the other hand this isn't 4E just to clarify its 3.5 but yes save you're time for the star wars game and get your force sensitive in before all the slots close

Edit: how did you even get in so many games I've been watching CA like a hawk and didn't even see half the ones I've seen you in

[Explosive Cheese]

Well, two of my three Pathfinder games were stealth recruits, and my other 3 active games (not including the one I GM) were recruited a while ago, while you were mostly in that Star Wars game that's sorta shut down.

[dabocim]

that was the main reason I joined this place and yeah it is pretty much shut down with there being only three of us left and no one seems to want to post on it any more